The Invisible Scout

[blw2]

The law of entropy is the lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.

It's a natural order of a lot of things

it's what people work to prevent, or at least delay..... Just as most folks mow and trim their yards week after week, it takes constant vigil to keep in check.

 

IMO, this is a case of traditional usage, vs a more "liberal" approach

Doesn't mean that either approach is wrong, exactly..... but one might argue that the chapter and verse quoted above is simply entropy at work..... the BSA yielding to popular opinion....

Just as the formality of dressing "up" for airline flights has yielded to any old thing that you slept in last night..... so is scouting and the BSA!

 

The topic of discussion is lack of visibility, and while Sentinel947 is correct to follow what the BSA has written, Stosh is absolutely correct that the uniform as intended, IS A primary visibility tool, and a good one at that.... and many of us work harder at making excuses than to use that tool.

 

and one more comment

Sentinal wrote:

""Class B" is not an official BSA term, but has been in use in the BSA vernacular that I don't think I committed a deadly sin by using said term in it's appropriate context."

Why not call it by it's official BSA name, the Activity Uniform? Oh, entropy at work again....

and additionally, I guess for approx 99.9% of the time, it's not worn as the true activity uniform anyway since it's to be worn with uniform pants, etc....

[Stosh]

blw2, I do believe that the activity uniform is a specific red polo style shirt sold by the BSA. The class-b designation is any t-shirt that has some BSA reference on it. It should match the athletic workout pants, pajama bottoms, Hawaiian shorts or blue jeans the boy is wearing.

 

Stosh

[MattR]

+1 Stosh: a uniform will help visibility.

+1 Sentinel: The BSA "field" uniform is really a dress uniform, and an activity uniform should be worn for campouts. I didn't know this was national's idea.

 

I went to scoutstuff.org looking for an official activity uniform and there isn't one. I saw references on the web to a red polo that Stosh mentions, but it is no more. I think it went out with the arrival of the Centennial uniform. What I did find are what looks like some really good shirts for the outdoors. They are simple T-shirts or polos that are the khaki or forest green. They are made of non-cotton (TrekTek?). They have a simple BSA logo on the chest. Youth sizes are $10, adults are $14. I'm going to get one for this weekend's campout.

[Stosh]

Gee, MattR, the policy statement states that the t-shirt MAY be worn outdoors, but doesn't say it SHOULD be worn. This is where misinformation get started. The t-shirt option is not suggested as anything official other than other parts of the official uniform can be worn with it. I'm thinking blw2's Law of Entropy is alive and well

 

And to further clarify the misunderstanding. BSA sells Boy Scout blue jeans (at least they used to) with a clear warning in the catalog that they were NOT supposed to be worn with the field uniform shirt. Summer camps and BSA sell t-shirts as mementos of past activities, not as a replacement for the field uniform.

 

When BSA comes out with terminology other that FIELD uniform, I'll rethink my definition of the BSA uniform. Until then my boys wear the uniform (complete uniform) when ever there is a scout activity, indoors or outdoors, doesn't make one bit of difference.

 

Yes, I have a ton of BSA t-shirts I have collected up over the years. They are great when I'm out in the garden. My paint shirt I believe is an old camp t-shirt from many moons ago. The best thing about the t-shirts is that I don't have to take it off when I have my after-mowing-the-lawn-on-a-hot-day beer.

 

Stosh

 

[Stosh]

By the way, does anyone have a picture of a Norman Rockwell painting of a scout in anything other than a field uniform?

 

Stosh

[Rick_in_CA]

When I was a boy scout, we did almost everything in uniform. Back packing, canoeing, service projects, summer camp, everything but swimming. That was mostly the pre-ODL uniform, but I was still in boy scouts when the ODL uniform was introduced, and ODL uniform wasn't treated any different. Though my troop did suggest we all replace the BSA pants with Army surplus as they looked the same, were cheaper and lasted a lot longer than the BSA ones. And we often swapped the pants for shorts if it was warm. I don't think any of us had any idea if there were official BSA shorts available at the time - non of us had them if they existed. The concept of "class-Bs" didn't exist - you were either in uniform or not (and the defining piece of the uniform was the shirt). And I remember the other troops were the same.

 

So what changed? Is the uniform more expensive today then back then (adjusted for inflation)? Is it less practical today? Or is it that we are so used to wearing t-shirts and such in our non-scouting lives that a shirt with a collar feels constraining?

[Stosh]

I was the only person in my office which employed well over 500 people that wore a sport coat every day to work. No tie, but a sport coat. I was teased a lot about it as were an others that came to work out of the blue wearing a suit and tie. Like we knew you were applying for a different job or you just came back from a funeral.

 

About 15 years ago the grunge style became popular. Loose fitting close, looked like you slept in it. Well the younger generation latched on to that like my generation went after blue jean bell bottoms. Eventually it became wear anything you want. This is why young girls look like hookers and young men look like they haven't gotten themselves together since their last visit to the restroom.

 

Try and make that fit into an environment of uniformity. It just doesn't work.

 

Remember the old book, "Dress for Success"? Well I don't think the younger generation really worries too much about that anymore.

 

I have found over the years that how a person dresses says a lot about their personality, likes and attitudes. No one ever has to tell a kid how to put on a sport uniform. But get them ready for school? Flip-flops, shorts, t-shirt are not appropriate wear for mid-winter in Wisconsin... But they still wear it.

 

It's not just the kids, either. Go to Walmart and spend a hour just sitting and watching people. Better yet look at the pictures of Walmart people on the internet. It's kinda scary.

 

Stosh

[SSScout]

Wow, I guess I really wanna be starting something. (Michael Jackson)

 

Uniforms exist everywhere. In my subteacher role, I sometimes talk about that to my temporary charges. I tell them, to their amazement, that they are , even now, wearing a uniform. They look like and belong to the "peer group" of their school. Look at any photo or picture from the past. The folks in it ARE in uniform. They demonstrate that they belong to THAT group, by dint of what they are wearing. Coat and tie? Shorts and flip flops? That demonstrates the belonging to a group. What group is that? You tell me..... The statement made by one's clothing , in whatever environment/venue, says a lot to the rest of the world about one's attitude, desires, loyalties, faith, skill, experience.... all by what one wears to cover one's nakedness. Hassidic Jew? Amish carpenter? Navy? Wall street banker? All wear uniforms.

I used to like the "image" of the red plaid "lumberjack" shirt and jeans.

For a boy (?girl?) to wear a Scout uniform in any place other than a Scout meeting says volumes about that youngster. If the "Program" is what Scouting is about, then what is that program as reflected in the uni's wearing? I liked the comment above about trying to find a Norman Rockwell painting of Scouts without a uniform, or in "informal" uniform (?class B?). And also the comment about looking for BSA Scout images that do not involve "saluting", or standing at attention, but smiling and doing outdoor stuff, like other Scout orgs demonstrate. Does that say something about the BSA?

[SSScout]

But I started this thread not just about uniforms, but about all of Scouting's invisibleness. Service projects, signs outside the CO, recruiting PWDs at the local library, Boy's Life in the Library for that matter. All that stuff means Scouting is still around and alive and kicking. Is the "program" worth promoting to today's yoooth, STEM not withstanding?

John Muir said that "of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt". I say that STEM needs to be included, but that the big draw to Scouting always has been the "dirt paths", and we need to hang the Scout brand over those the most.

[Stosh]

SSScout, I totally agree with everyone dresses for the group they identify with. Right now I am retired so I'm sitting here wearing blue jeans, a flannel shirt and hiking boots. It's winter here so I have on my long johns because when I'm done here, I'm heading outside, the sun is shining and there's no clouds in the sky!

 

So let's flip the record over to the other side. Is the reluctance to wear the BSA uniform correctly an expression of "individuality" (Do your own thing kind of thingy) and/or a disdain for wanting to identify with the group in the first place?

 

On scout meeting days, especially Cubs, we all wore our uniforms to school because we didn't have time to run home and change. We didn't carry backpacks either to stuff them into and one still had to wear the pants either way. The peer group seemed to believe it was a good thing to wear the uniform and be identified with scouting. I don't see that in today's youth. So why are boy joining scouting? Because Mom and Dad say so? Dad was an Eagle and was Grandpa? They need the Eagle cred? It might be a good question to ask your boys.

 

Stosh

[skeptic]

Most boys NOT in cubs join because someone, already a scout, talks about how much FUN they had at such and such. The uniform is secondary in that regard; it was the activity itself that brought interest and a "can I come next time" response. In our local county paper today is an article about the annual Scouting for Food, and it includes a couple of photos. They look like scouts very often do, especially when actually doing physical stuff, but also when just doing.

 

http://venturacountystar.ca.newsmemory.com/?token=64115810c31f66fa3996f1505a48e59a_54f896dd_fdf02f

 

Trouble is how hard it is go get these kind of things even in the paper, especially the ones that are primary in an area.

 

[perdidochas]

This is probably too pessimistic a view. While it's true that "bad" stories damage Scouting and undermine any positive effort to some degree, the truth is that most people don't really know anything about Scouting, either positive or negative. The ones who are not now and never have been involved in Scouting are much more likely to remember the last thing they heard, good or bad. It's easy, when you're involved in something that you care about, to assume that everyone at least knows about this great thing you're involved with, even if they don't directly participate.

 

It also provides a self-filling prophecy - if all our efforts will go to waste with bad publicity, then why make the effort? I can guarantee (because they've told me this themselves) that Scouting's enemies in our society are absolutely counting on enough people involved in Scouting to think this way so the organization cannot survive.

 

My recruiting experiences have all been positive. I have never had an angry Adult come up to me at a school or community event and chew me out for my support of homophobia, or patriotism or paedophilia or whatever disinformation they happen to be operating on.

 

I would encourage everybody to focus their efforts on Cub Scout recruiting. It is probably a million times easier to get a first grader to become a Tiger than an 8th grader to become a Boy Scout. I've posted several things that have worked for me in various threads so won't repeat them. But the main thing is in the opening part of the OP's post - it's not just for September. Recruiting, whether Boy Scout or Cub Scout, is a year-round effort.

 

My scouts have encountered hostile adults that chewed them out for the new policy about homosexual scouts, when doing popcorn sales in front of grocery stores.

 

That said, when wearing my Scouter uniform out and about, I pretty much get good comments.

 

[perdidochas]

Matthew: As a College student, when I'm discussing what I do with my life and Scouting comes up, very few people jump down my throat about the Boy Scouts of America's membership policy. More often that not, people who are polite, engaging people would ask "What do you think of the membership policy?"

 

To which I reply something to the effect of, "I believe in Scouting, and what it gives to teenagers, but I don't support the BSA's membership policies excluding homosexuals. If people like me quit the organization, the kids will suffer, and the organization will take even longer to change. Besides, what point is there opening the BSA up to homosexuals/atheists/girls, if there isn't anything left afterwards?"

 

Maybe the people in your area are just exceedingly rude, or you've just been unlucky. I live in a pretty conservative area, and it's normally not an issue. You are trying to give your son and his friends the best experience possible, if people are jumping down your throat about a policy you don't make, you probably don't want them to be involved in the program anyways.

 

Sentinel947

 

 

Just to be clear, you do understand that youth are allowed to be homosexuals in the scouts, don't you? (yes, we don't allow adult homosexuals)

 

[perdidochas]

 

You are correct. In fact, I know that my Scoutmaster friend from down the road made a comment about how emphasizing the outdoors and high adventure is the only way she is able to recruit new members to her Troop. In her experience, uniforms aren't highly thought of in her Troop or neighborhood. Also, she says that parents in the area aren't interested in the Troop's meddling in the formation of moral character.

 

Personally, I find this contradictory to what Scouting is about. Uniforms and Ideals are a part of the Methods. So is the Outdoors, obviously! But we can't neglect part of our Methods to appease the masses...Or should we?

 

I don't see how you can run a Troop without forming moral character. I can see how uniforms could be optional, but moral character?

[Sentinel947]

 

Just to be clear, you do understand that youth are allowed to be homosexuals in the scouts, don't you? (yes, we don't allow adult homosexuals)

 

 

Yes. Like many of my posts that particular post suffers from a lack of clarity.

 

Sentinel947