Venturing Age/Status Change Coming

[CalicoPenn]

I remember Point - in fact, my first beer was a Point. I purchased it legally in Wisconsin at a campground I was staying at over a weekend at the Dells with a friend. I'm pretty sure it's the reason that it was also the last beer I've ever had. Point was awful awful awful stuff - I should have bought a Leinenkugel.

 

 

[Scouter99]

What does this mean for the Order of the Arrow?

 

Sentinel947

 

http://www.oa-bsa.org/pages/content/ask-the-chairman-does-the-change-in-adult-age-affect-the-order

[Scouter99]

I think this is just more of a reason the BSA should follow the traditional international scouting program model(some of the names vary country to country)

 

Under 10/11 Cubs

10/11-14/15 Boy Scouts

14/15-17 Venture Scouts

18-25/26 Rover Scouts

Where this gets me is international events. A lot of foreign camps reach out, and I am unclear whether our 18+ people (College Reserve, ASMs) can attend as "youth" since the foreign association's youth programs run through mid-20s, or if they're outta luck and can't go because BSA considers them adults. Or if they can go by themselves since they're adults legally and in the yes of BSA, or if they're welcome to come but I also have to go because they're youth in the eyes of the hosts.

 

As far as "adult participants" let's get real, it's clear they mean participants in the advancement system, who are legally adults but just in the crew to have fun. SMs of any age could earn Eagle Scout until the 1940s.

[NJCubScouter]

My experience with the OA is not very extensive (the last contact I had with it was about 40 years ago when I became an Ordeal member and really had nothing to do with it after that), so I have a question, and this is really about the current situation, not the new rules. So here's the question: When a Scout who is a member of the OA turns 18, I understand they can continue to be a member of the OA. But, I am assuming they must also continue their registration in a unit, right? Or wrong? And if I am right, does that mean that in order to continue as a member of the OA after turning 18, one must become an Assistant Scoutmaster, or else register as a "youth" in a Venture Crew? Or is there some special registration status where an "adult youth" (i.e. age 18, 19 or 20) may continue as a "youth" member of OA but have NO other affiliation with a Scouting unit?

[packsaddle]

You know, I think that my eyes started to glaze over on the second line of the OP. This is an almost inevitable outcome of 'the policy'. And now, in response, I am thinking I'll return to the exquisite simplicity of....Cub Scouts.....and let the rest of this mess just fester into oblivion. BSA dug its own hole a long time ago and the only question remaining is how deep they are willing to slither into it.

 

Edit: Haven't touched alcohol in years but I do remember the great taste of Point Special. It's funny though, while I can remember Grain Belt and Hamm's (Minnesota), I have no memory at all of any beer from Illinois. So I suspect that ANY beer from Wisconsin is likely better than beer in Illinois.

[qwazse]

.... When a Scout who is a member of the OA turns 18' date=' I understand they can continue to be a member of the OA. But, I am assuming they must also continue their registration in a unit, right? Or wrong? And if I am right, does that mean that in order to continue as a member of the OA after turning 18, one must become an Assistant Scoutmaster, or else register as a "youth" in a Venture Crew? Or is there some special registration status where an "adult youth" (i.e. age 18, 19 or 20) may continue as a "youth" member of OA but have NO other affiliation with a Scouting unit?[/quote']The intent is that those 18-20 year olds maintain their membership with a troop. There is no pathway to election through membership in a crew, likewise being only about your crew is unseemly for any youth of the brotherhood. That said, I doubt most lodges pay any attention to your registration.

[Scouter99]

My experience with the OA is not very extensive (the last contact I had with it was about 40 years ago when I became an Ordeal member and really had nothing to do with it after that)' date=' so I have a question, and this is really about the current situation, not the new rules. So here's the question: When a Scout who is a member of the OA turns 18, I understand they can continue to be a member of the OA. But, I am assuming they must also continue their registration in a unit, right? Or wrong? And if I am right, does that mean that in order to continue as a member of the OA after turning 18, one must become an Assistant Scoutmaster, or else register as a "youth" in a Venture Crew? Or is there some special registration status where an "adult youth" (i.e. age 18, 19 or 20) may continue as a "youth" member of OA but have NO other affiliation with a Scouting unit?[/quote']

 

I don't mess with OA much either (just one more Scout place where I have to deal with some adults that annoy me) but my impression is that youth extends to 20 in the OA because it's youth led but 18-20-yr-olds are the age you want a national leader at, not a 16-yr-old.

[NJCubScouter]

The intent is that those 18-20 year olds maintain their membership with a troop.

 

Okay, let's stick with that. So upon turning 18, they would have to register as an Assistant Scoutmaster, right? They cannot still be a youth member of the troop. The reason I asked is that if they need to be an ASM to remain in the OA, the new requirements only affect them to a limited degree. In order to be an ASM, they have already submitted an adult membership application, gone through the criminal background check and taken youth protection training. They must also satisfy "adult membership standards," and we all know what that means. I suppose there will still be the anomoly that they "count" for purposes of two-deep leadership while with the troop, but not in OA lodge activities... but that is not affected by this new policy.

 

[qwazse]

Okay' date=' let's stick with that. So upon turning 18, they would have to register as an Assistant Scoutmaster, right?[/quote']

Or, Unit Scouter Reserve. Not that our troop has ever made the distinction. But, I guess now with the required position-specific training, it's gonna be more of a thing.

... I suppose there will still be the anomoly that they "count" for purposes of two-deep leadership while with the troop' date=' but not in OA lodge activities... but that is not affected by this new policy.[/quote']

Nothing new, and the arrowmen I've met seem to be unphased by it. They either are already ASMs (training included) or okay with Unit Scouter Reserve.

 

If their lodge never really cared that they were only registered with a crew, they will have to do a little catch-up paperwork/training ... ideally by registering with the troop they are serving, or registering as an adult participant in their crew. For the latter, there may be a little "nudge-nudge" "wink-wink" on the part of the lodge.

 

It will be interesting to talk to older venturers who are also arrowmen about how things play out for them on the ground. But, like I said, in our neck of the woods this pales in comparison to being under the cloud of state-mandated clearances. That cheerful service motto results in these fellows in particular volunteering among multiple youth clubs ... not just scouting. They will bear the brunt of the burden.

[walk in the woods]

 

So upon turning 18, they would have to register as an Assistant Scoutmaster, right?

Not as I understand it. The requirement for continuing membership in the order is to be a registered member of the BSA, not a registered member of a Boy Scout Troop. A boy has to be in a troop to get elected but could leave his Troop after completing the Ordeal and join a Crew or Ship at any time and still keep his OA membership active. So my understanding is an 18 year old could register as an adult in a Troop (ASM or USR), or as an adult-participant in a Crew or Ship and still be considered a youth for OA purposes.

 

That said, I hear at the last NOAC they had housing for youth (<18), gray area (>= 18 but < 21) and adult (>=21). I'm assuming they had female and male housing for the latter two age classifications but don't know that for a fact. Maybe somebody who was there can help us out.

[NJCubScouter]

That said' date=' I hear at the last NOAC they had housing for youth (<18), gray area (>= 18 but < 21) and adult (>=21). I'm assuming they had female and male housing for the latter two age classifications but don't know that for a fact. Maybe somebody who was there can help us out.[/quote']

 

The latter TWO age classifications? I thought that a female could only be elected to the OA as an adult leader, and that an adult leader must be 21 to be elected. (A 20-year-old woman could be an Assistant Scoutmaster, but she cannot be elected to the OA until she turns 21.) So in what you call the "gray area" (which I guess is good enough shorthand as any) there can be no females, and therefore no need to house them. Right?

 

[walk in the woods]

You're right. I assumed adult meant adult in a Troop but there is a 21-year old age limit. Isn't that silly.

[Stosh]

What if..., what if..., what if..., we can play that game all day long in a hypocritical setting and get nowhere. Simply go with the society's and legal standards set by society which is 18 years of age and one is an adult, and all discussion comes to a screeching halt. However, to keep the game rolling along, just pick two different numbers and we can keep this thread open indefinitely.

 

Stosh

[dhendron]

Our Council (San Diego - Imperial) began requiring adult applications for our 18-21 year old Venturer's and Sea Scouts with the recharters for the 2015 year. No phased-in period here, I guess.

[TAHAWK]

The two drunks who ran into me when I was driving were both in their 30's

 

​The drunk who totaled my Mom's car and put her in the hospital for two months was 20.

 

Do you suppose that "younger" drivers are disproportionately impaired drivers just as they are disproportionately involved in motor vehicle accidents?

 

Although drivers under the age of 21 represent 10 percent of licensed drivers they are responsible for 17 percent of fatal alcohol-related crashes. Approximately 2,000 underage drinkers die each year behind the wheel and alcohol is a factor in a third of allteenage auto fatalities. Another problem is that underage drinkers have a tendency to binge drink as reflected in the blood alcohol content (BAC) of victims of intoxicated underage car accidents -- on average, five times the legal limit (.40 BAC). Underage drinkers are also more reckless and less likely to wear seatbelts -- 74 percent of the young DUI drivers involved in fatal accidents were unrestrained at the point of impact.