click23 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Very little on this has been published. From what can be gathered on page 3 of this document, http://www.scouting.org/filestore/venturing/pdf/VenturingFAQs.pdf, starting March 1st, 18-21 year old Venturers will register as adults, but become adult participants . Adult Participants: ~ Register as adults, follow adult membership standards, take Youth Protection, have background check completed ~ Participate in Venturing like youth, can earn awards, hold leadership positions ~ Tent, shower, use bathroom facilities with adults ~ Can not date adults ~ Do NOT count as adult leadership/part of 2 deep leadership The change will happen over 3 years as a phase out. All Venturers 18-21 years old registered before March 1st will not have to submit an adult application until they turn 21, attend a high adventure base, or serve on a staff, such as camp staff. See the matrix below for full details. Youth Protection Training and the background check will be completed at the time the adult application is submitted. [TABLE=width: 500] [TR] [TD]Status[/TD] [TD]Age[/TD] [TD]Action[/TD] [TD]Enforcement[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Currently registered Venturer or Sea Scout on March 1, 2015[/TD] [TD]18 years old or older (Born before March 1, 1997 and, therefore, turns 18 PRIOR TO March 1, 2015)[/TD] [TD]No action necessary so long as the Venturer/Sea Scout is continually registered in the same unit.[/TD] [TD]The member must meet all adult membership standards but does not require a background check now Youth Protection Training.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Currently registered Venturer or Sea Scout on March 1, 2015. [/TD] [TD]Younger than 18 years old (Born on or after March 1, 1997 and, therefore, turns 18 ON OR AFTER March 1, 2015.[/TD] [TD]No action necessary until the youth turns 18 at which point he/she registers as an adult and meets all requirements of an adult; enters the adult participant phase (still coded as a Venturer/Sea Scout[/TD] [TD]Youth Protection Training and background check will be enforced when the adult application is turned in at the next time of charter renewal. If the member turns 18 within 30 days of the charter renewal, enforcement will take place at the next charter renewal[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]New Venturer or Sea Scout on or after March 1, 2015.[/TD] [TD]18 years old or older and less than 21 years old (Born before March 1, 1997)[/TD] [TD]Registers as an adult and meets all requirements of an adult, but is an adult participant (still coded as a Venturer/Sea Scout) [/TD] [TD]Youth Protection Training and criminal background check are enforced at the time of application. Member must meet all adult membership standards[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]New Venturer or Sea Scout on or after March 1, 2015[/TD] [TD]Younger than 18 years old (Born on or after March 1, 1997). [/TD] [TD]Registers as a youth Venturer/Sea Scout (as usualâ€â€no change) [/TD] [TD]No enforcement required.[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Venturer or Sea Scout (current or new) who applies for an adult leadership position, such as camp staff. [/TD] [TD]18 years old or older (Born before March 1, 1997 and, therefore, turns 18 PRIOR TO) March 1, 2015. [/TD] [TD]Registers as an adult and meets the same requirements as adult leaders as part of the leader application process. [/TD] [TD]Youth Protection Training and criminal background check are enforced at the time of application. Member must meet all adult membership standards.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks! Lots of meat in the Q&A of that document. For example ... "An 18 year old Venturer who fills out an adult applications for the Crew will not be permitted to serve as a leader for two deep leadership." This then begs the question, what is the benefit of the additional paperwork to being in a crew? Thinking of a scout who wants to just go hiking and camping on college break with his/her buddies who are a couple of years younger, it seems better off if they all bypass the BSA, hop in the car, and hit the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 We all know what has driven this, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 We all know what has driven this' date=' right?[/quote'] We've been told otherwise. Complicating this for PA residents (although I think other states are moving in this direction) is that state is requiring background clearances every three years on all volunteers (church, scouts, YMCA, you name it) working with children. BSA's 3rd party service won't pass muster. The adult venturers are considered to be participants, I wonder how much the state would agree to that definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 We all know what has driven this' date=' right?[/quote'] Without getting into "issues and politics" territory, yes, it's pretty obvious that this is to work around the membership issue when members turn 18. Personally, I think it's a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Complicating this for PA residents (although I think other states are moving in this direction) is that state is requiring background clearances every three years on all volunteers . PA's new background check laws have other twists. It is the prospective employee/volunteer responsibility to obtain and pay for his/her background check not the employer. Depending on whether it is direct youth contact and the volunteer's length of PA residency, this could be 2 or 3 background checks: child abuse, state police, and FBI. Sure the BSA could do it's LexisNexis on top of those checks and maybe a year or two later, the volunteer is cleared. About $50 for all three PA required clearances which must be repeated every 3 years! Unclear about the age of a volunteer? Would a 15yr old CIT need to obtain a background check? When you consider that few people will pay for the privilege to volunteer their time, this may be the end of volunteering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 LeCastor, you can get into Issues and Politics territory, because right after I finish typing this I am moving this thread to I & P. It has nothing to do with what you or TwoCubDad posted. The reference to "adult membership standards" in the initial post is enough for me. I will try to leave a "permanent redirect" under "Venturing Program" so people will still see this here and follow the thread to its new home if they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thank you, BSA National, for adopting a rule that you apparently need degrees in both law and complex mathematics to fully understand. I only have one. Maybe my son can help me, he wasn't a math major but he did get 800 on the math SAT... And now that this has been moved to Issues and Politics, I will say this: And it's all to protect a policy that should not exist in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thank you, BSA National, for adopting a rule that you apparently need degrees in both law and complex mathematics to fully understand. I only have one. Maybe my son can help me, he wasn't a math major but he did get 800 on the math SAT... And now that this has been moved to Issues and Politics, I will say this: And it's all to protect a policy that should not exist in the first place. I agree. This is a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Nothing messy about it, BSA has been involved in a hypocritical double standard for over 10 years and now has to do a mad scramble to justify what they have done. There's no amount of lipstick that's going to make this pig look good. Stosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 This is the same kinda crap that justifies how a young soldier just back from a tour of a foreign war can't come home and have a drink at the American Legion post with his buddies because he's not 21. In other less sophisticated cultures than ours, young men and women are already well into family by the time their counterparts here in the US are even eligible to join Venturing. But our well thought out modern culture thinks nothing of having their young men and women live in the parent's basement well into their 30's and 40's. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Nothing messy about it, BSA has been involved in a hypocritical double standard for over 10 years and now has to do a mad scramble to justify what they have done. There's no amount of lipstick that's going to make this pig look good. Stosh Stosh, that certainly sounds "messy" to me...And trying to put lipstick on a pig, now THAT'S messy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hypocrisy used to be a negative thing when I was growing up. Now it's the norm. While we all knew it was hypocrisy, we didn't spend anytime trying to defend it the way people do today. Maybe it's nothing more than political correctness of not offending hypocrites....... Since day-one, the 18-21 age of Venturers was wrong. Since day-one denial of consumption of alcohol by 18-21 was wrong. Either one is an adult at 18 or not, this hypocritical half-way definition is and always has been a joke. The 18 year old issue came about because society didn't like the idea of sending our children off to war, but certainly wasn't going to really let them be "adults". Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 18 year olds are adults, should be registered and treated like ones. Period. "Adult participants?" What kind of lawyer speak is that? Either keep 18-20 year old Venturers as youth, or make them be adults. Don't go halfway. And what the heck is "cannot date adults." They are adults if they are over 18. Wtf??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Wow, and all I want to do is make it possible for teenagers to go backpacking... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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