Medical Forms - Please Interpret the following:

[perdidochas]

Packsaddle,

 

The importance of the form for the leaders, IMHO, is so they can read over them so they know about the allergies and medical conditions of the boys. That way I know if John Doe starts swelling up, that it might have been due to the Reeses cup he ate.......

[Twocubdad]

Yeah, after two years of banging your head against the wall, I'd resign too.

 

Or how about this: Create a spreadsheet listing everyone in the troop sorted by the date their medical expires. On the 15th of every month, send emails to everyone with an expired medical explaining they are no longer eligible to attend troop activities until they submit an up-to-date form. Quote Section V of the Guide to Safe Scouting, "All Scouting Events. All participants in all Scouting activities, such as local

tours and weekend camping trips of fewer than 72 hours, need to complete and return to their unit leader parts A and B of the Annual Health and Medical Record. These forms need to be updated at least annually. Part A is an informed consent, release agreement, and authorization that needs to be signed by every participant (or a parent and/or legal guardian for all youth under 18). Part B is general information and a health history."

 

The heck with the committee. The heck with the ASMs. Just do your job and let the chips fall where they will. How the troop defines "activity" isn't your problem either. If the ASMs continue to take kids camping without the forms, and if the committee allows that to happen in spite of your monthly updates, you've done your job. I bet the forms come flooding in.

 

Then again, washing your hands of the whole thing works too.

[TAHAWK]

To heck with the rest of the team is likely to produce change. 0___0

[T2Eagle]

I think you are asking the wrong question. The question isn't really what is the definition of the word "activity" in this sentence. The question could be what does the BSA intend for us to do in these many varied activities, or what should we do so that as a practical matter we have acted responsibly to ensure the safety of our scouts.

 

Let's look at the first question. Ask yourself what the local Council and District do when they hold an event? If it's a campout they almost certainly want a medical form from everyone staying the night, and often they will check these forms as you check in. But do they stop everyone at the gate before a camporee and make sure every visiting parent, sibling, or friend has a med form? No. If the district holds a Pinewood Derby at a local school or church, do they require that everyone there fill out a medical? Do they check to make sure that even every racer has a medical form on file? No.

 

So that gives you an idea of when they believe someone must have a medical form in order to be present at an event.

 

The second question is I believe the most important one. So ask your self, as a matter of safety do you think it's necessary for every kid dropped off at a birthday party to have a medical form with them? DO you make sure that your children carry a complete medical history and list of vaccinations and medications with them every time they are away from you?

 

Scout camps require that everyone camping have a medical form. Your troop should do that too.

 

As a SM, I want to know any serious or unusual medical problem that any of my scouts have, whether they're camping or not, and I ask the parents directly, along with looking at the forms.

 

As a practical matter, no one is going to go looking in a file cabinet or folder or any where else if someone collapses, I'm going to call 911, perform first aid, and keep performing it until the medical professionals arrive. Every EMT, every ER, every doctor, has their own rules and protocols for how to handle emergent situations, if you can tell them something relevant as they're doing their initial assessment that's good, but they are not going to wait for anyone to go find a form in a file cabinet before doing whatever they feel is in the best interest of their patient. And absent a medical bracelet, 99% of their encounters involve someone who is not walking around with a medical history in their pocket.

 

If you think that national policy requires that every person who is in attendance any time two or more scouts get together has to have a medical form that is almost certainly not going to happen, in your troop or any other, if you feel everyone else is wrong, resign and save yourself the heartburn. If you want to serve the troop try to craft a policy that will actually work, understanding that your answer is probably not going to be THE answer.

 

 

[debbi821]

qwazee, I did not scoff at your phone list... I think it is a brilliant idea. I laughed because I KNOW our troop does not have one and would not make one. Heaven forbid a change be made to a troop that has had the same 4 people (SM & wife, Committee CHair & wife) running it for the last 10 years. I think all the ideas here have been wonderful and have really given me some things to think about. I appreciate the diversity of the answers and thoughts. I will say that I started a spreadsheet that I give to the person running each event that has allergy information. However, due to HIPPA I don't think I am allowed to list medical issues. So, I write - SEE MED FORM. I keep original copies of med forms. Since the scoutmaster holds things at his house, he has a binder with copies. We also have an extra binder that is given to the adult running a campout (since this is the only time they think we need the forms). Again, thank you all. I have some thinking to do =]

[blw2]

I've always imagined the purpose or intent being that any time a boy is under watch of a scouter, the form should be available.

If 911 must be called, of course nobody cares about the form for true FIRST aid, but until mom or dad get there from wherever they are, it gives the hospital management something to start with..... insurance info, etc....

 

Further more, I'd want the hospital to have my son's insurance info and treat him like a paying customer, instead of treating him like a non-paying customer.....

[Twocubdad]

BSA is not a "provider" (or whatever the terminology is) so HIPPA is not an issue. Folks who get wrapped around the axle with privacy concerns are a bit of a head-scratcher for me. IMO, one of the purposes of the health form is to let the troop leadership broadly know what issues they may be dealing with. I believe the health histories are more for the benefit of the volunteers who are in a position to head off emergencies than the medical professionals who, as others have noted, aren't going to rely on a form. When a scout is turning blue it's too late to be finding out he's allergic to peanuts or wasp stings. I want critical info fairly widely known by my leadership. The mom who handles our health forms (a RN) and I (SM) aren't going to be present for every emergency.

[perdidochas]

Yeah, after two years of banging your head against the wall, I'd resign too.

 

Or how about this: Create a spreadsheet listing everyone in the troop sorted by the date their medical expires. On the 15th of every month, send emails to everyone with an expired medical explaining they are no longer eligible to attend troop activities until they submit an up-to-date form. Quote Section V of the Guide to Safe Scouting, "All Scouting Events. All participants in all Scouting activities, such as local

tours and weekend camping trips of fewer than 72 hours, need to complete and return to their unit leader parts A and B of the Annual Health and Medical Record. These forms need to be updated at least annually. Part A is an informed consent, release agreement, and authorization that needs to be signed by every participant (or a parent and/or legal guardian for all youth under 18). Part B is general information and a health history."

 

The heck with the committee. The heck with the ASMs. Just do your job and let the chips fall where they will. How the troop defines "activity" isn't your problem either. If the ASMs continue to take kids camping without the forms, and if the committee allows that to happen in spite of your monthly updates, you've done your job. I bet the forms come flooding in.

 

Then again, washing your hands of the whole thing works too.

 

That's pretty much what we do. I think, though that Troopwebhost has the option to do a report on expiration date of medical form (if the data is put on it). Every month or so we send out emails to the folks with expired medical forms.

[perdidochas]

BSA is not a "provider" (or whatever the terminology is) so HIPPA is not an issue. Folks who get wrapped around the axle with privacy concerns are a bit of a head-scratcher for me. IMO' date=' one of the purposes of the health form is to let the troop leadership broadly know what issues they may be dealing with. I believe the health histories are more for the benefit of the volunteers who are in a position to head off emergencies than the medical professionals who, as others have noted, aren't going to rely on a form. When a scout is turning blue it's too late to be finding out he's allergic to peanuts or wasp stings. I want critical info fairly widely known by my leadership. The mom who handles our health forms (a RN) and I (SM) aren't going to be present for every emergency.[/quote']

 

We have a yearly session of ASMs (and the SM) to look over the medical forms, usually just before summer camp. It's so we know about things like that.

[RichardB]

Well, I'm still around.....So first, lets start with the source info: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/ahmr.aspx

 

Always start here - the attempt is one source, as simple as possible. Everything goes back to the source.

 

You will also find on the youth application: Health information. Please fill out the Annual Health and Medical Record, No. 680-001, found on http://www.scouting.org/forms and give it to the unit leader. So, you should have from joining a Part A and B for every youth. They should be available for all activities, this would include at meetings, your excursion to the park, weekend campouts etc. Figure out what is the easiest way to manage this for your unit. The FAQ's on the link above have some tips.

 

All participants - going to do this by example, not sure how to make the language more clear: Your Webelos Den is visiting a Troop for a campout. All participants would include youth, the leaders and parents on that campout. Your Pack is doing an overnighter. All participants is everyone along for the overnighter. Your Troop is going on a campout, All participants is everyone on the campout - youth, leaders, parents that come along to help. Direct contact leaders, your cubmaster, den leaders, SM, ASM, etc. who are at meetings, go to camp etc. should also have one on file at all times. NOT just for camp.

 

Now the Why: Four key reasons below, if you need to educate and inform why we have AHMR's.

 

Q. Why does the BSA require all participants to have an Annual Health and Medical Record?

 

A. The AHMR serves many purposes. Completing a health history promotes health awareness, collects necessary data, and provides medical professionals critical information needed to treat a patient in the event of an illness or injury. It also provides emergency contact information.

 

Poor health and/or lack of awareness of risk factors have led to disabling injuries, illnesses, and even fatalities. Because we care about our participants’ health and safety, the Boy Scouts of America has produced and required the use of standardized health and medical information since at least the 1930s.

 

The medical record is used to prepare for high-adventure activities and increased physical activity. In some cases, it is used to review participants’ readiness for gatherings like the national Scout jamboree and other specialized activities.

 

Because many states regulate the camping industry, this Annual Health and Medical Record also serves as a tool that enables councils to operate day and resident camps and adhere to state and BSA requirements. The Boy Scouts of America Annual Health and Medical Record provides a standardized mechanism that can be used by members in all 50 states

[scoutldr]

Thanks for clearing that up, RichardB. Although I'll bet some are wishing the question had not been asked...I can see issues trying to get AHMRs from parents and guests who are not registered members.

[qwazse]

Thanks for clearing that up' date=' RichardB. Although I'll bet some are wishing the question had not been asked...I can see issues trying to get AHMRs from parents and guests who are not registered members.[/quote']

 

I don't see that as an issue. Hand out forms to parents and guests and say "We don't depart until it's completed."

 

The OP's issue, however, is with scouters who never come camping and see no reason to file a form every year for meetings. They can go to the "one source" and say "See, meetings aren't on there." The best argument you could make is those two words on that little smile-shaped ribbon on the scout symbol. All I'm saying is, if they won't heed that, you're wasting your breath with these types. Move on and enjoy watching your boys grow.

[Twocubdad]

debbi -- RichardB is one of the health and safety guys at national (Richard, you may want to fill in some of your bona fides). You should print his response and give copies to everyone in the troop.

 

Not that they'll listen, but.....

[TAHAWK]

Richard, while I agree with your reasoning about the value of the forms whenever Scouts (or Cubs) come together, BSA might say as much - in so many words.

 

I, and others, looked and looked, and cannot find one place where meetings are mentioned -- except in your post (which few will see). The examples given are always (or so it seems to us) non-meetings.

 

I asked at our Service Center today (02/18,2015) and was told that the forms were not required for meetings., "just for activities.."

[packsaddle]

I asked at our Service Center today (02/18,2015) and was told that the forms were not required for meetings., "just for activities.."

 

Ahhhhhhh....the sweet sound of blessed local option.