Medical Forms - Please Interpret the following:

[NJCubScouter]

Ahhhhhhh....the sweet sound of blessed local option.

Heh. There goes Pack, the eternal optimist. Seems more like the sweet sound of complete confusion and poor communications at every level, to me.

[RememberSchiff]

"For any and all Scouting activities, all participants must complete Part A and Part B. "All participants" includes parents, guardians, siblings, youth, staff, and unit leaders. "

 

Out in the real world, our unit's conventional wisdom is this:

All members of a scout unit must supply their current Part A and Part B forms to their unit leader. Form C and High Adventure may also be needed depending on duration and venue. These forms are securely managed and carried along to all unit activities by the unit leader or alternate.

 

So which "non-registered's" need to supply a med form.

Dads running a Pinewood Derby? No, even though he will likely self-administer two aspirin.

A mom who volunteered to help drive scouts to weekend campout? No

An adult working in the kitchen of a scout fundraiser? No

Parents and siblings visiting the Family Campfire at scout camp or troop meeting? No

A scout famiily going along for a day trip - No

A non-scout sibling accompanied by parent - No and they MUST be accompanied by parent!

A policeman giving a DARE presentation at a troop meeting - NO but I dare you to demand the officer do so.

SAR personnel presenting at a summer camp - NO

A parent staying overnight at a campout - Yes

 

Let's not hassle the few adults who help with unnecessary paperwork and an intrusion on their privacy. I do not know of any other youth group that requires informal adult volunteers to submit medical forms for a casual helpful presence. Other youth groups assume their adults to be responsible and liable for their own health management and risk assessment.

 

My $0.02,

[packsaddle]

"Let's not hassle the few adults who help with unnecessary paperwork..."

 

Hellllloooooo.....I don't think they heard you......

[debbi821]

Thank you Richard! I will print that and take it to the next committee meeting!!! RememberSchiff - a parent driving - HECK YES! they need a medical form! In fact, each driver is supposed to have a medical form IN THEIR VEHICLE for EACH PERSON in their vehicle if they are driving scouts to an event.

[debbi821]

So, here is how this turned out.... First off - after giving the troop more than 6 weeks (deadline of 2/16 since we rechartered on 2/17) the compliance rate of turned in med forms was 38%! And that was just scouts and adult leaders. I didn't include parents or committee memnbers in that number because our parents that participate change each year. At committee - they agreed that all scouts and leaders needed to have forms on file. But, gave me no authority to madate this. (I actually have an ASM that also works/volunteers at District who is refusing to do med forms for him or his sons - they don't go on campouts! AGH!). We did agree that from now on, I will send the ASM that is in charge of each campout the list of non-compliant scouts and adults. They will become responsible for making sure that if somone on that list is scheduled for the campout a form is turned in. I was done getting rosters 2 days before a campout and then having to figure out who was out of compliance. Ive told them I will hold med forms but I will not spend all my time begging for forms, I bring them to all troop meetings. If an ASM or SM decide to have a patrol meeting or something else that I am not at.... I don't care anymore. I am done fighting to try and get them in BSA compliance. I am 1 person working against a troop of 100 boys and 20 leaders... and 4 of those leaders have been with the troop for 10+ years and are stuck in their ways and refuse change.... of course, they are the Committee Chair, Advancement Chair, SM and SM wife.... they run the troop... any change put before them is almost always denied. I'll just do my best and stop stressing out. Not my head on a plate if heaven forbid something happens and a med form isn't on site..... I did all I could.

[qwazse]

... I'll just do my best and stop stressing out. Not my head on a plate if heaven forbid something happens and a med form isn't on site..... I did all I could.

 

That's about how it works in a volunteer organization. Yours is a big one at that, so micromanaging becomes a full time job. Don't let it dominate you like that.

 

Note: if your troop is successful, the ASM or SM won't be deciding to have a patrol meeting. The PL will. Honestly, if this troop were more boy-run, you might have a much easier time with this paperwork.

 

Things will be so much easier when we come up with medical record tattoos.

[scoutldr]

Don't worry...the government microchips are coming...just like dogs.

[debbi821]

Actually, it is the PLs that schedule patrol meetings... but they are required to have an ASM + 1 adult (2 deep leadership) with them. Our troop likes to think it is boy led... and troop meetings are chaos. Let's not talk about summer camp where the ASM was oblivious to the bullying, disrespectfulness to other troops and swearing.... but, the adults are the one who carry all the behind the scenes stuff.....

[scoutergipper]

I do hope you will report back when one of the non-compliant Adults or Scouts is injured or becomes ill at a "Scout activity" and is killed or injured because they received inappropriate treatment. In particular I'd like to know how much the family sues the Troop and BSA for.

[TAHAWK]

I do hope you will report back when one of the non-compliant Adults or Scouts is injured or becomes ill at a "Scout activity" and is killed or injured because they received inappropriate treatment. In particular I'd like to know how much the family sues the Troop and BSA for.

 

I am in favor of having everyone fill out the forms.

 

​An adult refuses to fill out the form and dies due to inappropriate treatment, and his estate sues the troop and BSA for allowing him to come on the "activity" without the completed form?

 

It's part of the human experience to have baseless suits filed against people. I was once sued for $32,000,000.00. Was that supposed to mean anything?

 

Satan and His Staff were once sued in U.S. District Court. (The case was dismissed for failure to achieve personal service on .any of the defendants. The argument that substitute service on the Pope was sufficient was rejected on the grounds that the Pope was not a statutory agent for receipt of service of process for those defendants. The Court also noted that it was doubtful that the Plaintiff, Mr. Gerald Mayo, was an adequate class representative.)

 

Anyone can be sued for anything.

 

 

Now the medical care provider(s) who rendered the inadequate treatment? They would have problems.

 

 

How about subcutaneous data chips, Q? Probably better than bar codes.

 

 

 

[qwazse]

Chips would require a reader, something that may not be available. Plus the encoding would need to be standard and interpretable across generations of software. (Same applies to bar codes.) Furthermore, they would have to withstand electromagnetic radiation and electrical currents of diagnostic and therapeutic instruments.

[qwazse]

Actually' date=' it is the PLs that schedule patrol meetings... but they are required to have an ASM + 1 adult (2 deep leadership) with them. Our troop likes to think it is boy led... and troop meetings are chaos. Let's not talk about summer camp where the ASM was oblivious to the bullying, disrespectfulness to other troops and swearing.... but, the adults are the one who carry all the behind the scenes stuff.....[/quote'] Adults are only required for overnights (only in the past decade). Then again, if the boys are cusses, short leashes might be in order. Teaching PLs to be responsible for their boy's med forms (at least knowing who owes you one) is not that far fetched. Again, immaturity is a barrier. I had one scout find out that another scout needed antidepressants, and the conversation became unnecessarily adversarial.

[Eagle94-A1]

Yep, a patrol's day activities do not need adults. And yes if there is an adult, only 1 would be needed since there would not be "one-on-one" contact.

 

Wife was concerned that she would need to stay home with me since son is having a patrol meeting at my house. Not needed since A) it's a patrol day activity ( meeting) and no adults are needed and B) there won't be any one-on-one contact anyway.

[debbi821]

Wow! Well at least I know our troop does something right... We ALWAYS require 2 adults. The only time we let this slide is when an adult drives and has his/her own scout in the vehicle. I'll keep you all posted on when we have an issue that requires med forms and it isn't there. Oh wait - I have one! Well, an old one.... A couple years ago our Cub Pack was having a Pie Throwing event at their meeting site. Whipped cream + cafeteria floow = SLIPPERY! A den leader went down, hit her head on a table and passed out. Her glasses were broken, and she broken the bone around her eye socket... 911 was called and the EMT took her to the hospital. No med forms were at the meeting. I wasn't there, or a part of that committee, so I do not have details. But, I do know that BSA insurance covered ZERO of her medical expenses, she paid all of it through her own medical insurance. Did BSA not cover because med forms were not there? I was told BSA didn't cover because BSA insurance is a joke and doesn't cover anything if you have medical insurance..... The den leader didn't sue. She isn't that type of person... but I wonder what would have happened if she did???

[qwazse]

Wow! Well at least I know our troop does something right... We ALWAYS require 2 adults.

 

You may think it's right because someone made up a rule for your troop/district. But it is not required by the Guide to Safe Scouting. And for some of the things we should expect boys to do at this age (especially your troop's older boys, once they wash their mouths out with soap), the presence of adults undermines those expectations.

 

So, 8 boys, two minivans and two adult drivers for an overnight are compliant with the G2SS (as long as they aren't overladen with gear).

Likewise 6 boys, one adult and a minivan on a day trip (say, first aid instruction) are compliant with the G2SS (as long as the instruction doesn't involve the adult being alone with one of the boys).

Eight boys, no adults, no motor vehicle and a solid hike plan (reviewed by the SM) are compliant with the G2SS for the day.

 

Not saying that you all don't have a right to make up your own rules. Just be aware that they aren't from National.

 

... But' date=' I do know that BSA insurance covered ZERO of her medical expenses, she paid all of it through her own medical insurance. ..... The den leader didn't sue. She isn't that type of person... but I wonder what would have happened if she did???[/quote']

 

BSA covers what isn't covered by medical insurance. Were she uninsured/under-insured, BSA's coverage would have kicked in. Should she have successfully sued ... and the CO's liability insurance did not cover the damages, BSA's unit liability insurance would have attempted to make up the difference. The lack of a medical record would not have altered the financial outcome. (It MAY have sped delivery of non-life-support-related treatment IF she remained unconscious and a significant other -- spouse, presumably -- was not available to provide consent.)