recruiting from another troop

[Torchwood]

Well, since the OP didn't say how the contact was being made, YOU made that leap all on your own. I understand that YP is important, but why was that your first thought? You assumed it was a Scouter, and you assumed that the contact didn't also talk to the boy's parents. There is an old line about the word assume...

[scoutergipper]

I appreciate your effort to defend your statement that there couldn't possibly be a Youth Protection issue anywhere in the original scenario that was posted. You leapt to precisely the other end of the YP scale that I did, on precisely the same information. One of the ways we can get into trouble is to convince ourselves that there couldn't possibly be anything bad going on or to not bother to think through possibilities.

 

It seems highly unlikely to me that a Scout or Scouts would get together and say, "Hey, let's go raid Troop so-and-so and get some of their Scouts to join our Troop." The original scenario sounds like Adult thinking to me.

[perdidochas]

Well' date=' since the OP didn't say how the contact was being made, YOU made that leap all on your own. I understand that YP is important, but why was that your first thought? You assumed it was a Scouter, and you assumed that the contact didn't also talk to the boy's parents. There is an old line about the word assume...[/quote']

 

I didn't assume it was a Scouter. I wasn't sure. I said that if it was a Scout, no worries. I said that if it was a Scouter, it would have raised my concern as something to watch out for, not something to act on. To me, for a Scouter to invite an already trooped Scout to join his troop is suspicious. I know as a Scouter I would never do that. It just seems creepy to me.

 

To be precise, this is what I said:

Who is doing the inviting? Is it one of the youth's friends, or is it the adult leaders? I don't think there is anything wrong with a scout to ask his friend in another troop to do things with them. If adults are doing the inviting, IMHO, its a YPT yellow flag.

 

Yellow flag means caution in my mind. I stand by it.

[Torchwood]

Gipper- You are assuming that one Troop is "raiding", as opposed to asking a kid who may or may not have friends in the other Troop already or just be unhappy with his current Unit. Also, the OP hasn't filled in any blanks about who is making the contact.

 

Perdidochas- You also have made assumptions without getting all of the info. You can stand by your opinion until the cows come home, but given only the information provided by the OP, there was no reason to raise the YP flag first.

 

I am just curious why more than one poster on this thread automatically assumes the worst about other Scouters. Then you wonder why you have a hard time getting volunteers.

[perdidochas]

Gipper- You are assuming that one Troop is "raiding", as opposed to asking a kid who may or may not have friends in the other Troop already or just be unhappy with his current Unit. Also, the OP hasn't filled in any blanks about who is making the contact.

 

Perdidochas- You also have made assumptions without getting all of the info. You can stand by your opinion until the cows come home, but given only the information provided by the OP, there was no reason to raise the YP flag first.

 

I am just curious why more than one poster on this thread automatically assumes the worst about other Scouters. Then you wonder why you have a hard time getting volunteers.

 

I still don't get the making assumptions bit. My post was based on an either/or thing. I never assumed it was either a scout or a scouter. I said what I thought about either situation. My first hypothetical was that the invite was from a scout that was a friend of the scout. As I said, there was nothing wrong with a scout asking another scout.

 

The second hypothetical is that it was from a scouter. I don't need any more information to know that I would watch the situation. I wouldn't voice it to anyone, but I would be on the lookout. The only way to keep Scouting safe for boys is to be alert for things that seem suspicious. If a Scouter came up to my son and asked him to join their troop, it would set off warnings. Children (and all scouts are children) only have a single innocence. I'm a scout leader to help the Scouts, and part of helping the scouts is to watch out for them.

 

Part of this is involved with having taken youth protection beyond the scouting one. Our local Catholic diocese (I'm a member of the Catholic parish that sponsors our troop) requires us to take an additional two online classes on youth protection. They are much more oriented towards how to recognize predators than the BSA course which is primarily CYA.

[blw2]

We've got a related situation I think in my pack, where we have our CO's troop, and then another troop nearby that many of our pack has crossed over to over recent years. Now, the leaders of the other troop who still have sons in the pack, I suspect are using pack and den meetings to recruit (not formally,but "in the back of the room")

I don't think there's anything directly wrong with what they are doing from what I can tell, but it still rubs me as in bad taste. Just seems tacky.

[Eagle94-A1]

BLW,

 

I feel for you. I'm a Cub Scout leader with one CO, and a Boy Scout leader with a different CO. I talk about the troops activities, and have invited Webelos to one of my troop's events. I know of at least 2 Webelos who will be crossing over to us next year.

 

My question is this, what has your CO's troop done with your pack?

 

I feel bad for the CO as they do support Scouting. I do not want to see their troop die. Heck I helped train the original Boy Scout leaders, worked with their scouts, and it was because of the troop that I brought my oldest to the pack to visit first. But the change in SMs has taken its toll on the troop. Scouts are leaving left and right. They go on few camp outs, and mostly merit badge weekends at camp. Their meetings are MB classes or basketball in the gym. It seems ad if the new leadership is only concerned with boys getting Eagle.

 

It seems as if they view anything non-Eagle related as a waste of time. Scouting for Food was suppose to be a joint venture with the pack, and they didn't participate. They have not invited Webelos to camp with them in 2 years, and have not invited them to visit in a year. We've asked for Den Chiefs, and only got them when another troop said they would give us some. Then the ones we got were as bad, if not worse, than the Cubs. One DL told one DC not to come back.

 

It is a very frustrating situation for me, one that I admit I need to let go of. But it is very hard to see something you put effort into fall apart.

[Eagle94-A1]

Wanted to add a few things as I was under time restraints.

 

1) Had to practically beg them to invite Webelos to camp with them 3 years ago. Thankfully one of the ASMs had a son in my den and they finally did get invited. But then I had to do it again last year, trying to get another den invited to camp with them. Another troop invited those Webelos because the CO's troop waited until a week before the event to invite them to join them.

 

2) I mentioned how they invited my son's den to a meeting a month before they were to cross over. My son and I didn't go as my mother-in-law was in the hospital. But from two fo the Webelos who did attend, they stated they felt a lot of pressure to join them. This past year, they didn't even invite Webelos to a meeting.

 

3) Pack leadership tried to coordinate Scout Sunday with them and never get response.

 

4) My son realized he didn't want to join that troop after his camp out with them as a Webelos I. But I told him not to discuss it with anyone, and encouraged him do any activities with the troop if invited despite knowing he would not be going there. I didn't want his entire den following him to another troop. His best friend joined the troop with him, and the rest joined the CO's troop. It was only after they joined the troop and began getting frustrated that I talked to them and their parents about visiting. Out of the 5 that went to that troop, 2 transferred to use, 2 quit, and the ASM's son is the only one left.

 

5) Because they do nothing with the pack, nor go to RTs, last year's Webelos leader met both the SM and ASM of my troop at RT. His Webelos were invited to camp with us, visited one of our meetings. Yep they joined us except for 1. He had friends in another troop.

 

6) So far this year, they have done nothing with the Webelos. And those parents and leaders who are hearing about the lack of camping, not participating in district events, etc are concerned. One reason why the CM actuallly went out of his way to meet and visit the troop. He sees we are not perfect, but knows what our plans are and has and a relationship is developing.

 

7) I've seen this since I was a Webelos, if a troop doesn't have a relationship with its pack, then you cannot expect them to automatically join you. You gotta nurture a relationship