Scout with Poor Grades

[hondaman]

First, I am new to these forums and am not directly involved in Boy Scouts (although I was a Cub Scout many moons ago and earned my Arrow of Light before retiring so I could focus my non-school activities around instrumental music, computers, and baseball). I am an academic tutor who runs a support, enrichment, and homeschool business.

 

Currently, I have a high school junior who is a Boy Scout. I am not sure exactly which rank or requirement he is working towards (again, I am familiar with Cub Scouts but not Boy Scouts) but I know he is extremely busy with activities for Scouts, particularly on weekends. He also plays in his high school band and is active in his church (where the troop is based).

 

Here's the problem--his grades are currently far below where they should be (which is why I am working with him). As I said earlier, he is a junior, which is the most important year for colleges to look at. His effort in his schoolwork is poor, and his attitude about school is very negative. He has said many disrespectful comments about his teachers when working with me.

 

This is a student who needs to focus on his studies and needs more time to complete assignments, study for tests, and build skills in almost every subject. He can't drop band since this is a course he takes through school, which leaves just church and Scouts as activities he could eliminate to gain more time.

 

I would hate to see someone have to quit an activity because they need to allocate time elsewhere, but I feel this is a student who needs to do that. I would like to recommend scaling back activities to his parents due to his current performance in school, but have a few questions first:

--Are there any grade requirements to remain in good standing in the Boy Scouts?

--Would it be a good idea to take a break from Scouts, even for a week or two, to refocus other areas of life?

--Is every single weekend camping trip mandatory? I'm sure they'll have more in the spring, which is when he will need every bit of time he can get for finals and standardized tests.

 

He's a good kid but is going through some trying times, academically and elsewhere, and I'd like to approach the parents in the right way if I make the recommendation to scale back on activities. Any advice/answers to my questions?

[Eagle94-A1]

Every unit is run differently: some are laid back in attendance, some are as demanding as school extracurricular like sports and band. So the the time demands by the troop vary widely.

 

My question is this, are there other issues going on? I know that I've seen folks have scholastic issues as a result of family trauma: divorce, illness, death, etc.

 

Another question is this: is the negative attitude just 1 teacher or all of them? I had a teacher that I had philosophical differences with Junior year. I hated that class. Thankfully that teacher was honest enough to let our differences not bias my grades. Gave me a hard time, yes. But was fair with my grades, yes.

 

I had a professor in college that would play that game.

[scoutldr]

Thank you for your interest in this young man. To answer your questions, no there are no academic prerequisites to be a Scout. There is no minimum level of participation, except for rank advancement which states, "be active in your troop for a period of XXX". The criteria for "active" are largely determined by the troop leadership, hopefully taking each Scout's situation into consideration. When baseball season starts, we typically had some who temporarily "suspended" their scouting activity, but we knew if we asked them to choose, we might very well lose. So we took the attitude that "enjoy baseball and we'll see you when you come back". They always came back. The decision to suspend Scouting is up to the parents and scout. My only concern is, that with his negative attitude toward school, his newly found "free time" will be spent somewhere else other than school. The Scouting program can be highly educational, and there are (or used to be) guides out there that would correlate various scouting activities with educational goals (in my state, called "Standards of Learning"). So instead of cutting him off completely from an activity he loves, is there a way to achieve educational goals through Scouting? I know that college admissions staffs look at how extra-curricular time was spent...it's not all about grades and SAT scores, especially if he starts in a Community College and can perform well there. Just my 2 cents.

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forums.

 

I feel your pain b/c we had a scout who had complete disdain for schoolwork and barely graduated last of his class. Nice guy, but is coming up through life in the school of hard knocks. His problem was a passion for cutting corners, doing the bare minimum, skirting boundaries. As a result, he was very involved in scouting but tried to shortchange requirements for Eagle Scout and did not achieve the one goal he admired as a youth. That failure was his first wake-up call. A few more such events, a wife, and a daughter was what it took for him to settle into a decent job. But he lost the trust of a lot of friends along the way. If your student is anything like that scout, backing off on one activity is not going to help his performance in another.

 

However, if he has been managing time poorly -- regardless of if he is college material -- then he needs to straighten out. Another girl in my venturing crew is army bound, but almost lost that opportunity because of terrible grades. What she needed to do was stop social activities. Get MORE involved in venturing, girl scouts, and a job ... thus surrounding herself with people who did not find stupid to be cute.

 

Bottom line: the diploma is money. And I think his scoutmaster would agree. To answer your questions ...

• There are no grade requirements to be in good standing in Boy Scouts; however, a scoutmaster can remove a boy from positions of responsibility, and excuse him from meetings if there's a problem at home.
  
• Taking a break for a couple of weeks from scouts to focus on academics would be a good idea. Scouts take breaks to focus on other things (sports, theater, church missions, family vacation) all the time. However, he can still be scouting. I refer you to the requirements for scholarship merit badge http://www.meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Scholarship.
  
• No trip is mandatory. Boys just love to go on them. Our scholar scouts sometimes bring homework to work on in the car and at campfires. Our athletes will wake before reveille and work out. Our thespians will practice their lines wile hiking. Obviously, if your student is overwhelmed, "fitting in" a couple of study hours will not be enough.
  

I'll also add:

• From the scout law, a scout is ...
  
  • courteous. He has no business back-talking his teachers.
    
  • obedient. His teachers are boss, he should approach any assignment with gladness, because he is ...
    
  • cheerful. This especially applies when life is tough. Any jackass will smile when there's no load to bear.
    

  [*]From the scout oath

  • A boy is "on his honor" to "do his best" to keep himself "mentally awake." Note that I also have boys in school systems with chronic grade inflation, low expectations of students, etc ... never do we use that as an excuse a boy to shirk from gaining knowledge when it is offered c/o the taxpayer or his parents.
    

My advice:

• When you talk to the parents, also ask them about video games, TV, and other distractions.
  
• If you can, talk to the scoutmaster about the situation. The boy's minister/youth pastor might be a good contact as well.
  
• Re-familiarize yourself with the scout oath and law (http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts.aspx). When he throws up attitude about teachers, etc ... Remind him of the relevant point, and say something like "I know you say this every week. It's time it actually meant something."
  
• Consider becoming a counselor for scholarship merit badge. It's not required for Eagle, so very few boys will ask your help with it, but a lot of boys should consider it. In fact some home-school scouts use the merit badge program as part of their curriculum, so it would serve your business to familiarize yourself with it.
  

Good luck. Let us know how things work out!

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forums. I've seen this before. My advice is free and worth every penny: 'Be there' for the boy and make sure he knows it. Make sure the parents know too. Then let them make their own decisions. Some people learn things the 'hard way' if they learn them at all. And regardless of the outcome, don't take things personally. Whether failure or success, it won't be 'on' you. The parents and the boy are the ones who have made the decisions so far and they will mostly determine future decisions. Like I wrote, just be there regardless.

[RememberSchiff]

 

--Are there any grade requirements to remain in good standing in the Boy Scouts? No, though but I would expect Band would have such requirements. There merit badges that may help, in particlar, Scholarship merit badge, perhaps you can become a merit badge counselor for Scholarship merit badge. There is also a Reading merit badge

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Scholarship

 

 

--Would it be a good idea to take a break from Scouts, even for a week or two, to refocus other areas of life? Absolutely.As you pointed out this is a critical time. He needs to consider his future, improve his grades, SAT/ACT, college visits, develop good relations with teachers for recommendations, etc. I would not set the break based on time but rather on goals, otherwise he will just run out the clock on you. 'We will take a break from scouting until we have completed these academic goals - grades, test scores, college visits'... and maybe earn Scholarship merit. My older son missed several weekend scout outings to SAT/ACT test prep classes. I wish we had done it sooner.

 

--Is every single weekend camping trip mandatory? I'm sure they'll have more in the spring, which is when he will need every bit of time he can get for finals and standardized tests. No. His troop may have set attendance requirements, e.g., 'you need to go on these to attend the summer trek'. In my household, the expectation was firmly set - school came before scouts. Homework not done, no scouts. Homework got done. I also had some talks with the the scoutmaster to get him with our son's overall life program.

 

He's a good kid but is going through some trying times, academically and elsewhere, and I'd like to approach the parents in the right way if I make the recommendation to scale back on activities. Any advice/answers to my questions?

 

Determine his personal goals, responsibilities, and interests. Prioritize and balance! From what you described his scouting experience seems a fun escape from schoolwork which is a shame as his scouting experience should be much more. It should be teaching him the same life skills you are teaching him now - map out a destination for yourself, learn new skills, develop solid relationships with adults (teachers).

This has not happened for whatever reason and time is ticking...childhood's end.

 

Good luck and thanks for helping a scout.

 

My $0.02

[DuctTape]

Based on the list of activities, it doesn't sound like the Band, Scouts and Church are all that much. I would sit down with the student and look at his monthly, weekly and especially daily calendar. In my experience, the most time is wasted in the afternoons and evenings during the week and not on the weekend activities. When looking at the calendar, also begin discussing "how much time do you think you should spend on xxx, per day/week/month". A week has 168 hours in it. It is about setting priorities, but is also about organizing. Since he is so negative about school, I would be good money he only does school work with you, and barely enough while in school to not get in trouble. A week has

[Stosh]

Welcome to the forum, it's good to get non-scouters that are interested in knowing more about the program.

 

With that being said, it is my opinion that scouting is NOT the problem. It would appear that scouting is the one thing he really enjoys and I see that being recognized as leverage to improve his scholarship. It isn't going to work. I was in scouts as a boy. I was also a Class-A underachiever. My guidance counselor told me I wasn't college material. My adviser advised against taking college prep courses. I graduated in the lower half of my graduating class. Since graduation I have now 3 degrees, one of which I earned a 3.27 GPA and the other two are 4.0 GPA. The highest degree I hold is a professional masters degree. In high school I was in band, sports, clubs, etc along with scouting. I was too busy trying to survive high school which was by far the low point in my life.

 

Because this I have spent 40+ years working with youth, 30+ of them in Scouting as an adult leader. Why? Because I understand the hassles that some of these kids go through because of their parents, teachers and others who try harder than the student to achieve scholastic excellence. Were some of my teachers jerks? Yep, extra homework because I didn't do it right in the first place. Daily badgering to remind me I was an under-achiever. Yep, that too. Parents that cajoled and bribed me to get better grades. Was I compared to older siblings who did better in school? Oh, of course!

 

My advise on how to approach this issue? Be his advocate, work with him and help him with his struggles as he moves through this difficult time of his life. You need to be talking with him, not judging him with some sort of analysis standard you have come up with to talk with his parents, teachers, and everyone else about. If you are able to gain his confidence, he will begin to come around to certain extent. He has no one out there to champion him as a person. And it would seem that you as his tutor are focused more on his scholastic achievement and getting into college than you are as him as a person. I suppose as an academic tutor it's bad for business if the kid isn't improving under your tutelage. Just remember he harbors disdain for other teachers, you have the opportunity to either join them, or strike out on a different course than they are taking. Start with a heart-to-heart with the boy and go from there. By heart-to-heart, I mean let him talk and then you listen for a change. Working with a trusted ally is always far more effective than working for teachers and tutors.

 

Stosh

[skeptic]

When we refer to grade issues, can you be more specific? While getting all A's or A's and B's is commendable, getting C's is not the end of the world, especially if the average is higher. And frankly, even a D, if the boy tried but simply did not get it is not a reason to panic. Part of the problem with many of our youth is this thing called grade inflation, or the idea that average is bad. All this does is put more pressure on many, to the point where they hit a mental wall. Sometimes, maturity will mend it all. While I was in the top of my class with what was then called college prep, I really did not do overly well my last two years, especially in math and science; and my first two years of college at a community college I managed only a 2.01 GPA. After a year working and four in the service I went back and made the dean's list and eventually got my teaching credential in California with close to a 4.0.

 

Do what you can to encourage the scout to "do his best". But as noted by others, try not to add more pressure. We are only seeing this from your description, so our comments should be taken in that perspective. Good luck.

[Sentinel947]

First off, thank you for taking an interest in this young man. Sometimes in academics, where kids are herded through in large classes, teenagers don't feel like their instructors are looking out for them.

 

Your questions have already been answered, so I won't pile on there.

 

From my own experience as a high school and current college student, I waste plenty of time. I imagine if this Scout and his parents can be honest with themselves, he can find time to do his homework and do a little extra studying, instead of sitting on Social Media, or playing Video Games or watching TV. As somebody who did the Church, Scouting, Band, Marching Band gig in High School, I can say it was time consuming but I probably had 2-3 hours a day to do homework and study. I was about the definition of an average student, with a 3.2 GPA. That put me in about the 40th percentile of my graduating class.

 

As a current Assistant Scoutmaster, I'd never have an issue with a Scout taking a few weeks off to refocus on Schoolwork. My concern however is that if a teen who doesn't like school is forced to quit things they enjoy to do more schoolwork, that extra time won't be filled with Schoolwork. I can practically guarantee it. I recommend you or his parents or his Scoutmaster talk to him about time manangement, and try to help him find areas after school, after/before band practice or Scout meetings that he can better utilize on his studies.

 

Sentinel947

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting question and replies.

 

 

There's a LOT to be said for learning the imnplications of the Cub Scout motto early: "Do Your Best."

 

As a Cub Scout leader trying to get that point across to boys at a young age is one of my priorities. My aim is to get boys IN THE HABIT of doing their best all the time.

 

I don't know how much real success I have with that, but that's one of my aims.

 

 

Once people have deeply ingrained habits of character, it's tough to change them, and that seems to be where the boy in question is at.

 

 

 

[TAHAWK]

If he is very interested in Scouting, it is possible that the adult with most influence in his life at present is one of the adults in the Scout troop. That adult might also have useful insights into the boy's situation.

[hondaman]

Wow, thanks for all the great replies!! All of you have given me some great ideas and have answered my questions.

 

Since some of you have brought it up, yes, he does have an X-Box, and I have talked with the parents about limiting it or even putting it on ice entirely. He also watches a lot of hockey on TV but isn't really into any shows or movies. I'm not sure if they have followed through with any of this but I will see him Tuesday and will find out.

 

Dropping band isn't an option for him since you have to sign up for band class in school. Marching season is over but I think they have a band trip where they march in a parade in the spring (at least my school's band did). I'd hate to tell them to cut back on church; too many kids grow up without a solid faith anymore and I wouldn't want that to happen to him.

 

The scout-based suggestions do sound great, especially the parts about going over the expectations of a scout. I seem to recall learning these at one time (maybe in WEBELOS?) and the refresher has given me some ideas for a pep talk. I'd gauge his interest in scouts at maybe a 7.5 out of 10, but it's hard to tell because apathy is one of his main problems these days. He has the ability to be an A/B student and was getting good grades until this year. I'll also check in on that merit badge to see if he's earned it. It could make for a good summer project for him.

 

I am friends with his Scoutmaster; we attend the same church and he actually bought my family's old Day Sailor when we downsized during a move many years ago (remind me to ask him if I can buy that boat back because I miss it; I'm pretty sure he still has it and rarely sails it). I am not sure if I want to involve anything with that yet since I do feel he has the ability to turn around on his own. However, this is a student who calls anyone he disagrees with a "communist" and clearly has some attitude issues.

 

I really do like the young man and feel he can go far; I also believe Boy Scouts has helped him in many ways. He's just going through a rough patch in his life for whatever reason and I think having a good talk with him will help. I think having a guy outside of his troop to talk to (most of his role models are the leaders in that troop) may also be good since he won't have to worry about being judged in Scouts through that.

 

This isn't my first case of apathy in a teenager, but it's my first where Scouts are a factor. I've been able to turn kids around in my first few years on this job (including a former drug addict who is now succeeding in academics and life) so I'm confident I can make a difference here. Thanks again to everyone who has posted, and if anyone has further ideas/suggestions/input, please share!!

[Rick_in_CA]

I'd gauge his interest in scouts at maybe a 7.5 out of 10' date=' but it's hard to tell because apathy is one of his main problems these days. He has the ability to be an A/B student and was getting good grades until this year.[/quote']

 

This is an interesting tidbit. So the apathy and poor grades are new? You said: "his attitude about school is very negative. He has said many disrespectful comments about his teachers when working with me." Is that new too? Two years of good grades and then this, suggests something has changed.

[hondaman]

Rick--good question. I have known his mother for quite a while through church and I know he's always had a few focus issues, but he's always wanted to succeed and hasn't really been all that negative about school until this year.

 

He has been very negative about his math teacher, his foreign language teacher, and to some extent his chemistry teacher. I have never heard him that negative about actual teachers before, although he has been very negative of others outside of the school system (namely politicians he does not like). He does have an interest in government but refuses to hear all sides of any argument and is quick to call his enemies a "communist". (Maybe he's just stuck in the era of McCarthyism?) He's always been opinionated, but this is something new. He also won't take suggestions easily, especially ones that could help him (like taking his time, doing practice prompts for tests, better organizing his folders, etc).

 

It could just be part of him being a teenager, but it's gotten to a point where it's interfered big time. He's never received a grade on a report card below a B until this year. I don't suspect drugs here, but he's rebelling a bit against authority.

 

I'm also not sure if he has any leadership role in his Scout troop. He's not the kind who would step up and do it (although I'm pretty sure every boy has to do something leadership-wise at some point, at least we did in our Cub pack back in the day--we'd take turns leading the flag salute, demonstrating something, etc). Again, help me fill in any Boy Scout details I am missing (now I regret not continuing in Scouts...)