A view of PC currently in our society

[TAHAWK]

It's how they pay the bills. They don't create irrational, dehumanizing prejudgment. They pander to it. As BP says, it's been around awhile -- - and all over the World.

[Stosh]

Stick and stones.... I've been called a lot of things over the years by a lot of people, some nice, some not nice. But It's never hurt me. I normally can distinguish between the language meant to hurt and the language that seems to be everyday for a person. I can I just let it pass as not worth making an effort to challenge. Sometimes tolerance is an act of kindness in and of itself. I also find that people using offensive terminology really aren't interested in being PC in the first place and making note of it doesn't help the situation, doesn't educate the offender, and basically accomplishes nothing in the long run.

 

If one must take a stand, do so on actions, not words.

 

Stosh

[DuctTape]

You are entitled to your opinion. I choose to not stand silent when I witness another person being hurtful to another in words or deeds. More importantly, I choose to use words which uplift rather than denigrate.

[packsaddle]

OK, just so I understand this conversation: There's this concept called 'politically correct' which at one time would have translated literally to 'politically successful' or something like that. I'm guessing that 'incorrect' doesn't win votes.

Anyway, the term 'politically correct' changed to apply to ideas or statements which do NOT offend enough voters that the election is lost, or something like that. And NOW according to the article, the concept is back, "frothing at the mouth and at hurricane force". As if it ever left in the first place...not to mention the rather liberal use of metaphorical images (can a word really 'froth at the mouth'?)

 

Actually all of that has the clarity of a top quality diamond compared to the latest conversation. What I'm getting is that Stosh (who's been called a lot of things but I think mostly Stosh and jblake47 around these parts) seems to have some kind of concerns about PC but it's not all that clear to me what they are and then DuckTape has just attempted to be uplifting in his response.

And I'm trying to get the uplifting part (not to mention what did Stosh mean in the first place?) clear in my mind. That response seems to imply that while DuckTape chooses to use words which uplift rather than denigrate, it leaves open to the imagination who it is that doesn't try to do that? Is it someone here in this thread? Or the author of the article? As for that uplifting statement, "you are entitled to your opinion", it is almost as if there is a disagreement of some kind. Is there? Really? What is it? Are you sure?

Help me out. This is confusing.

[Stosh]

Follow the logic... I don't care one iota about PCism. It is nothing more than picking words that don't "offend" those who tend to be intolerant of the old nomenclature. I'm a native American because I was born in America, but because my heritage is mutt-European, people will be upset if I mark it down. I don't have PC rights to that title.

 

A close friend of mine was born in Africa to missionary parents, but he gets hassled when he says he's African-American when his stereotype of blond hair blue eyes doesn't fit the PC definition.

 

PCism tends to be noting more than a polite stereotyping and profiling of people. The argument doesn't hold water, but it is the hip thing to do in today's society in America. If one is not-so-polite with their stereotyping, then the person is a bigot, racist, homophobic, or any one of a number of non-PC titles that are free to toss around regardless of how hurtful they may be or even valid in nature.

 

To sum it up for you Pack.... I don't participate in PCism because I don't spend a lot of time worrying about whether someone has a handicap, doesn't have social skills, has a different skin tone, or has some sort of deviation from some cultural norm du jour.

 

It does bother me when people do however, participate in PCism and make grandiose gestures to pick some new terminology for their stereotype thinking it is so polite and unoffensive. As a matter of fact, I pretty much ignore the conversations when they get down to that level of hypocrisy.

 

For those who wonder jblake47 is the name I registered under for any forum I am involved with. I am known on this forum and any other forum I have participated in as Stosh. It was a nick name given to me about 20 years ago when the forums were first coming out.

 

So If someone calls me one or the other I don't have a problem with it and I don't lose any sleep over it. However, if one were to call me late for dinner, I would probably show a bit of concern as long as I didn't miss dessert.

 

Stosh

[packsaddle]

Understood and10-4 on that dessert!

[DuctTape]

The term PC was created as a response to justify continuing to use terms that offended some. Just because a word or term doesnt offend someone, doesnt mean it isnt offensive or hurtful to another. When someone says that a word or term is hurtful to them, to continue to use it is unkind. Some try to justify their continuing use by raising the PC flag or some other justification. I choose to be kind.

[packsaddle]

OK DuckTape, I think I get what you're saying. So....what words, terms, or ideas DON'T offend someone, anyone? Are you sure about that? Are those what we're limited to? Really?

[DuctTape]

No, that is a Reducto ad Absurdum fallacy. I am certain everyone here can think of certain terms which are so offensive and hurtful that even they do not use and likely cringe when they hear someone else use them. As society changes, there are other terms which people begin to realize are also hurtful and kind people will change their vocabulary. If someone without malice says something which is hurtful to another and is then made aware of it, a kind person will reconsider their usage instead of jumping on the "well don't be so PC" bandwagon. The calling something PC is an easy way out instead of considering how ones words may affect another. We cannot be perfect, but we can be considerate.

[packsaddle]

DuctTape,

If I enter my classroom tomorrow and note that there exist persons who wrongly believe that the seasons are related to how close the Earth is to the sun as it continues its orbit, I will cause at least five students (who answered a preliminary survey) to experience discomfort, possibly embarrassment, because until that time they 'knew' an explanation for the cause of the seasons that was actually wrong. I would not have to point them out, but if I ask for those in the class who previously held that incorrect view to raise their hands, some of them will. And other students may snicker at them, causing even greater discomfort.

 

It is my duty to correct such misconceptions and I frequently do, perhaps multiple times in every such lecture. Almost every one of those occasions could be considered politically incorrect and what I'm understanding from you is that I should refrain from this.

I should never mention or explain evolution, certain genetic ideas, certain diseases, reproductive behaviors, religious views of any of those previously-mentioned things...because I know before I discuss them that there will be some fraction of my students who will experience personal discomfort, perhaps shame, or embarrassment as a result. By discussing these things I am intentionally causing those discomforts.

As I understand what you're saying, because I know in advance that I may cause these students to feel bad about what they previously thought they knew, it would be better for me to...as Father Reginald Foster advised, to live and die "with their stupid ideas".

 

If this is what you advocate, I do not accept it because it runs contrary to the scientific process and education itself. I would argue that it is good for someone who has a strongly-held, deep-seated incorrect belief...to learn of its incorrectness. Am I wrong?

[walk in the woods]

when PC is out of control, at last for me, is when we start doing things like changing the words to the "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn." Or radio stations cutting the audio track for the second verse of "Money for Nothing." When some offensive words become off limits to some people (e.g. rap lyrics use the n-word but white folks can't), while other offensive words (called anybody a redneck lately?) are given a pass and when historical literature starts being re-written to conform to current societal mores, we are treading a very dangerous path.

[packsaddle]

"Redneck"...h'mmm. My in-laws continue to refer to me as 'Jed Clampett', does that count? I've been told that the term applied at one time to the strikers who wore red bandannas around their neck as a sign to other strikers not to shoot them as scabs. There are other stories as well. Interesting term, though. The term 'scab' has always been a derogatory one, I think. Guess that's off the list. The way I handle that in class is that I show a documentary in which the strikers and strike-breakers use all manner of terms. Great documentary.

BTW, I can sing the ballad of Jed Clampett all the way through. Now THAT really makes them uncomfortable....lol.

 

Edit: at some point I introduce Joel Chandler Harris's 'Wonderful Tarbaby Story' to the class. I have a copy of his book that's over 100 years old and I show them the original text and illustrations. It's a nice perspective to have, now that the term has taken on a decidedly negative tone for persons ignorant of its origin.

[walk in the woods]

Interesting, redneck, at least in my old dictionary, refers to "A member of the white rural laboring class, esp. in the southern United States." It becomes offensive slang when it's used as a caricature to insult the white rural laboring class as unintelligent. The difference is PC hypocrisy revels in calling those white rural folks names but gets offended at other words.

 

So, since I'm offended at the way the term redneck is currently used DuctTape, and the fact that I grew up white, rural, poor and working in the fields, I expect you will strike that word from your vocabulary. I still get to watch and enjoy Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable Guy. You however, do not. In fact, you should be so outraged and offended that you should immediately stop using the drug Prilosec, sell any stock you have in Proctor & Gamble, and petition all organizations you know to do the same for exploiting the white rural poor laboring class.

[DuctTape]

Pack,

 

That is not remotely close to what I advocate. I apologize if anything I wrote led you to that belief. I am referring specifically, and exclusively to the use of terminology which refers to groups of people in ways which are derogatory to them.

[packsaddle]

DC,

There's another version that dates to the first half of the 17th century in Scotland and a bunch of rebellious Presbyterians. There's probably some version in China for that matter, lol. Ever hear of a 'hootiecat'? It's applied to a person who goes down to the levee to bankfish, carrying two 5-gal buckets, one to sit on and the other full of stink bait.

Ok, we've probably all of us done that before.. .but the thing that really makes a hootiecat is when there's a pang of hunger, he eats some of his own bait. Mmmmmmm, yum! Hootiecat.