Eagle Advisor?

[mrjohns2]

5 minutes ago, swilliams said:

National says the scout can do it.

The scout is turning it in to the designated district person. Turn it in and move on. 
 

Or you can choose to make a big deal out of it. Your choice. 

[RememberSchiff]

16 minutes ago, swilliams said:

Another complication.  My son was trying to fill out page 9 of the Eagle Scout Workbook, where it asks for the contact name, address, phone and email for the Council Service Center.  He pulled up our Council website, and under the Eagle Project section it says:

Proposals will be accepted from Eagle Coaches ONLY. Scouts should NOT submit their own proposals. WORKBOOKS MUST NOT BE PROTECTED BY PASSWORD OR IN ANY OTHER MANNER. Proposals are distributed to the District Committee for review in the order they are received. The review process may take a few weeks. The District Committee will return comments and questions to the Scout and the Scout’s Eagle Coach should any clarification or revision of the proposal be necessary. The Scout should resubmit the revised proposal promptly. Scouts must receive District approval before beginning work on the project. 

This doesn't align with Guide to Advancement, which states a scout does not need to accept the help of an Eagle Coach.  Neither of us is sure what to do now.  Can Districts or Councils make their own rules that are in conflict with what is published by National?  I don't want to create a big sh--storm here, but for multiple reasons my son does not want to work with our unit's assigned Coach, and I am 100% behind him on this.

9.0.2.9 Eagle Scout Service Project Coach

"It is true a Scout need not accept the assistance of the service project coach. Regardless, it is considered best for the council or district to designate one for every Scout who submits a project proposal for approval. The coach should then contact the Scout and suggest a first meeting, or telephone or video conference. Scouts have already promised when they submit a proposal that they have read the service project workbook, and thus they should already understand a coach is optional. Scouts who suggest they don’t need one should be counseled on the value a coach can add. Ultimately, however, working with a designated Eagle Scout service project coach is the Scout’s decision."

My younger son ran into this. He did not want or need the assistance of an Eagle Coach. but the District Eagle Board demanded otherwise. My son had submitted his workbook electronically but the District could not process and later color paper copies (which were lost) before a District designated coach arrived. This coach was empathic as he had not had an Eagle Coach either. Coach made some comments but ultimately his real contribution was successfully delivering a 70+ page Eagle project workbook to the one-person District Eagle Board who was not an Eagle.

"Can Districts or Councils make their own rules that are in conflict with what is published by National? " In my experience with two councils,  both have made their own one-plus process rules. 

Sorry to hear of your son's experience.

My $0.02,

 

 

[swilliams]

20 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

The scout is turning it in to the designated district person. Turn it in and move on. 
 

Or you can choose to make a big deal out of it. Your choice. 

Maybe I'm not being clear enough.  He knows he has to have the proposal approved by the designated district or council person.  He has no issue with that.  But in order to get it to that person for their approval, the district is saying he has to use an Eagle Coach and have the Coach turn the proposal over to the district.  This is in direct conflict with what GTA says.  

This Eagle Coach (who is also a MB counselor) made my son take 24 months to complete his Personal Fitness MB because he kept delaying their last meeting.  By the time this person finally found the time to meet, my son had broken two bones and couldn't complete the final fitness test. Among other things.  We are NOT using him as Eagle Coach.  So yes, I am going to make a big deal about it.  

The person from Council who was at our Committee meeting when my son's proposal was approved, and who said they would be willing to act as his coach, has not responded.  My son would like to get this turned in so that he can work on the project over the summer.

Edited April 30, 2023 by swilliams

[mrjohns2]

Good luck argument semantics. Seems pretty simple to me. 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

I don't have an answer for you, @swilliams, but best wishes in finding a way to get your child actually going with their project over the summer. I hope you are both successful. 🙏

[InquisitiveScouter]

Call the District Advancement Chair (DAC) to discuss this.

Requiring and Eagle Project Coach is adding requirements to the process, which is strictly forbidden.

When you talk with the DAC, ask if the District has someone who will review his paperwork as Eagle Project Coach.  Tactfully, if necessary, explain why your son does not wish to use the existing unit coach.  The District or Council may have someone who is acceptable to work with.

A phone call may clear this up.

If the DAC is adamant your Scout use the coach he does not wish to, then have your Scout submit the proposal, as is.  You follow up with a note saying you counseled your Scout on the importance of a coach, but he has declined to use one (with excerpted verbiage from the GTA).  If it comes back from District denied, then immediately start an appeal process.

There is no Eagle Project Coach signature block on the Proposal Approval page!

How old is your Scout?

[swilliams]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Call the District Advancement Chair (DAC) to discuss this.

Requiring and Eagle Project Coach is adding requirements to the process, which is strictly forbidden.

When you talk with the DAC, ask if the District has someone who will review his paperwork as Eagle Project Coach.  Tactfully, if necessary, explain why your son does not wish to use the existing unit coach.  The District or Council may have someone who is acceptable to work with.

A phone call may clear this up.

If the DAC is adamant your Scout use the coach he does not wish to, then have your Scout submit the proposal, as is.  You follow up with a note saying you counseled your Scout on the importance of a coach, but he has declined to use one (with excerpted verbiage from the GTA).  If it comes back from District denied, then immediately start an appeal process.

There is no Eagle Project Coach signature block on the Proposal Approval page!

How old is your Scout?

He will be 17 in just over a month.

I just spoke to someone who is still on our Troop Committee, but is also on the list of Eagle Coaches who can be assigned by the district.  He reiterated that my son MUST work with the Unit Eagle Advisor, and told me that my son's proposal would most likely be rejected by the District if it didn't come from the Advisor.  I am beyond angry.  What are we teaching scouts with this?  My solution might just be to have him join a Troop in the next town over, which is in a different District that does not require this.  

I may decide to fight it later, but really don't have the bandwidth to start a war, particularly when I have a 15 year old who will still need to go through the process.  I'm worn down, discouraged, angry...  I can only imagine what my kid is feeling.  

There seems to be this strange idea among too many scout leaders that this is "real life" and will toughen the kid up.  I say it only teaches them that it's okay for them to be unresponsive and dismissive.  We should be leading by example, imho.

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 minutes ago, swilliams said:

He will be 17 in just over a month.

I just spoke to someone who is still on our Troop Committee, but is also on the list of Eagle Coaches who can be assigned by the district.  He reiterated that my son MUST work with the Unit Eagle Advisor, and told me that my son's proposal would most likely be rejected by the District if it didn't come from the Advisor.  I am beyond angry.  What are we teaching scouts with this?  My solution might just be to have him join a Troop in the next town over, which is in a different District that does not require this.  

I may decide to fight it later, but really don't have the bandwidth to start a war, particularly when I have a 15 year old who will still need to go through the process.  I'm worn down, discouraged, angry...  I can only imagine what my kid is feeling.  

There seems to be this strange idea among too many scout leaders that this is "real life" and will toughen the kid up.  I say it only teaches them that it's okay for them to be unresponsive and dismissive.  We should be leading by example, imho.

It teaches them that there are jerks in the world who desire power for power's sake.  They will have to deal with the same "in real life," but I have made a hobby out of smashing these "rice bowls" and finding ways to streamline processes.

Best wishes to you guys. 

[DuctTape]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Our District has no role in the process. We go straight to Council. Best of luck!

If you want, I will call National HQ and complain about your district adding to the requirements.

[mrjohns2]

4 hours ago, swilliams said:

But in order to get it to that person for their approval, the district is saying he has to use an Eagle Coach and have the Coach turn the proposal over to the district. 

Has he told the coach he isn’t interested in any coaching, but here is my proposal, please process? 

[scoutldr]

I've sat on many EBOR as the District Rep and don't recall ever seeing any place on either the project write up or the Eagle App for an "Eagle Coach/Advisor" approval.  Have things changed?  What is the written requirement?

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 hours ago, scoutldr said:

I've sat on many EBOR as the District Rep and don't recall ever seeing any place on either the project write up or the Eagle App for an "Eagle Coach/Advisor" approval.  Have things changed?  What is the written requirement?

There is a discussion of the role in G2A and the ESSP Workbook, but G2A specifically cites the Coach as optional for the Eagle Candidate.

[swilliams]

4 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Has he told the coach he isn’t interested in any coaching, but here is my proposal, please process? 

I think this is how he will try to proceed. He doesn’t share his parent’s inclination to fight this kind of thing, and I can’t blame him. He just wants to get it done and see his work translated into a finished series of trails. (Un-ironically, the ‘just get it done’ is what made him not want to use the Advisor in the first place.)

As of an hour ago, our former committee chair has asked to become an Eagle Advisor for the Troop, so that if our District is dead-set on forcing scouts down this road, at least they have a choice in Advisors. 

[skeptic]

Another example of some adults overstepping.  It sounds as if they are suggesting the youth, or the troop, or both do not have the intelligence or understanding to follow the pretty much bullet pointed form.  Oh my gosh, someone might use imagination or out of the box thinking.  Seems sad to me, and if it was from my district I would be on them directly, as I did once when someone on the district "Eagle Committee" told us that we had approved a project that was out of line with the intent.  I had to actually read the detailed phrases and then ask them to explain how it was not done right or acceptible.  The district head resigned, but sometimes it is just too much.