Eagle Advisor?

[packsaddle]

I was IT for a few years for this unit. I mainly just looked over the boy's shoulder to make sure he didn't misinterpret one of the requirements or perhaps missed it altogether. I took a quick look at project plans to see if they'd take the next 10 years to complete...or the next 10 minutes. That sort of thing. I also made sure they knew about deadlines...REALLY knew about deadlines.

[LeCastor]

I was IT for a few years for this unit. I mainly just looked over the boy's shoulder to make sure he didn't misinterpret one of the requirements or perhaps missed it altogether. I took a quick look at project plans to see if they'd take the next 10 years to complete...or the next 10 minutes. That sort of thing. I also made sure they knew about deadlines...REALLY knew about deadlines.

 

So you worked in that Troop's IT dept? Did you get a lot of help tickets? Yes, I jest.

 

I can see helping a Scout proof-read the documents and such. In fact, I've done that. Everyone needs an editor because a second pair of eyes catches things that you don't...

[Stosh]

If the Eagle Boards want everything perfect, why do they expect a bunch of kids to write it. There should be an Eagle Review Board in every unit that the boy goes to, give them the general idea of what his project is all about and they write it.

 

Oh, that's already being done in a lot of troops? Never mind.

 

Stosh

[LeCastor]

If the Eagle Boards want everything perfect, why do they expect a bunch of kids to write it. There should be an Eagle Review Board in every unit that the boy goes to, give them the general idea of what his project is all about and they write it.

 

Oh, that's already being done in a lot of troops? Never mind.

 

Stosh

 

 

Hey, Stosh. I think this process has been viewed by many as preparation for professional and academic life. Proofreading is a part of life and it never hurts to have someone else look over your reports, papers, applications, etc. (I hope you don't think I'm "writing" this applications for Eagle candidates. )

[SR540Beaver]

If the Eagle Boards want everything perfect, why do they expect a bunch of kids to write it. There should be an Eagle Review Board in every unit that the boy goes to, give them the general idea of what his project is all about and they write it.

 

Oh, that's already being done in a lot of troops? Never mind.

 

Stosh

 

Let me play devil's advocate. So a kid writes his plan. It isn't on the national supplied form, it consists of a few hand scratched notes in pencil that really aren't even complete sentences, there are no pictures or diagrams and he can't articulate his project in an understandable way, but it has unit leader signatures......do you rubber stamp it because the kid "wrote" it and wish him luck? What is your standard within the stated rules and guidelines from national for an EBOR that you will accept a project or deny it?

 

http://www.scouting.org/Home/GuideToAdvancement/EagleScoutRank.aspx

[Eagle69]

I used to be the Eagle Adviser for our troop but that was back in the day of the old workbook. When they came out with the Project Book a few years back it got to the point that anything they slapped down on paper was okayed so my job went by the wayside.

[Stosh]

 

Let me play devil's advocate. So a kid writes his plan. It isn't on the national supplied form, it consists of a few hand scratched notes in pencil that really aren't even complete sentences, there are no pictures or diagrams and he can't articulate his project in an understandable way, but it has unit leader signatures......do you rubber stamp it because the kid "wrote" it and wish him luck? What is your standard within the stated rules and guidelines from national for an EBOR that you will accept a project or deny it?

 

http://www.scouting.org/Home/GuideToAdvancement/EagleScoutRank.aspx

 

I didn't say the boy was not to follow the rules and guidelines if he is able. If not something else will have to substitute. A blind scout should be able to write his project in braille. Not everyone can type on a keyboard. So, what's more important: the quality of his project or the quality of his proposal?

 

I have seen projects were there are no pictures or diagrams. One puts them in only if needed. If the scout can't articulate his project in an understandable way, that means someone else is going to have to do it for him or it doesn't get done. This is how adults end up doing the project from proposal through completion.

 

What does any of this have to do with a project that shows leadership?

 

I'm thinking that the adults are making a big deal out of something that just isn't. If the boy can get the idea of his project clear enough to have someone think it's good enough to qualify as an Eagle project, that should suffice.

 

Yes, as a scout leader I have received phone calls from the council committee asking ME if it would be sufficient as an Eagle Project. Why are they asking ME????

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

 

 

Hey, Stosh. I think this process has been viewed by many as preparation for professional and academic life. Proofreading is a part of life and it never hurts to have someone else look over your reports, papers, applications, etc. (I hope you don't think I'm "writing" this applications for Eagle candidates. )

 

And I also think that this process has been viewed by many as a lot more than a project that shows the boys leadership ability. Nothing more, nothing less, or one is doing what I said in the first place, adding to the requirement. Feel free to quote the part where the requirement says anything pertaining to preparation for professional and/or academic life. A professional lawyer does not need leadership skills, nor does it take leadership to get a PHD. I also stated earlier that if one wanted to have someone look it over for proofing, the boy's English teacher would be the most qualified.

 

I have seen this process abused by adults so often it is pathetic.

 

I would think that if the scout wanted to do a professional job of the project, he can simply do a R. I. E. using the 9-block basic problem solving A-3.

 

Stosh

[LeCastor]

 

I also stated earlier that if one wanted to have someone look it over for proofing, the boy's English teacher would be the most qualified.

 

I have seen this process abused by adults so often it is pathetic.

 

 

Stosh

 

Not necessarily, Stosh. I've come to know some English teachers who couldn't diagram a sentence to save their lives...

 

As for the second part, I agree with you completely. I don't personally advocate for an Eagle advisor position and think that most of the Eagle process is handled by adults. I've tried and succeeded in my own Troop of keeping it in the hands of the Scouts. There are any number of Scouters on had, though, in case the youth have questions pertaining to the application process, etc.

 

I think too much emphasis is placed on earning the Eagle rank to the detriment of the rest of the program. No, this isn't across the board but I definitely have seen those Scouts whose only goal is to attain Eagle. There's more to Scouting than a list of requirements.

[JerseyScout]

One must be careful that one does not add to the requirements. After all this is not governmental grant writing here, it's a young man doing his best to get an opportunity to show his leadership abilities. 

Oh, how I wish our District Advancement Committee had this mindset.  They make the Scouts jump through all sorts of hoops, threaten to fail them for all sorts of nonsense, and sometimes do fail them for the silliest of things (my favorite - one Scouts didn't say exactly where hammers were coming from.  Because it's so hard to get hammers.  They made him come back with letters from people documenting that they'd lend him hammers).  One of our moms, who's son went through the process, said her son's write up for his proposal was harder and more complicated than her grant requests, and she's a professor at an Ivy League college.  

 

We give the Scouts way more guidance than I'd like, making sure all sorts of exact wording is in each proposal, and our Scouts still get themselves in trouble all the time.  

 

I'd never had made Eagle Scout if I had to do what my Scouts today have to.  Not the leadership end, the going through red tape and navigating made up rules.

[vumbi]

If you will post a mailing address for the advancement chair, I'll be glad to donate a couple of hammers...as a token of his stupidity. I suspect he might get a few, as well, from others reading this forum.

Yes, the process seems a little confusing the first time you read the workbook instructions. But then, adults go to work on their labyrinthine interpretations and it gets out of hand quickly.

[fred johnson]

Oh, how I wish our District Advancement Committee had this mindset.  They make the Scouts jump through all sorts of hoops, threaten to fail them for all sorts of nonsense, and sometimes do fail them for the silliest of things (my favorite - one Scouts didn't say exactly where hammers were coming from.  Because it's so hard to get hammers.  They made him come back with letters from people documenting that they'd lend him hammers).  One of our moms, who's son went through the process, said her son's write up for his proposal was harder and more complicated than her grant requests, and she's a professor at an Ivy League college.  

 

We give the Scouts way more guidance than I'd like, making sure all sorts of exact wording is in each proposal, and our Scouts still get themselves in trouble all the time.  

 

I'd never had made Eagle Scout if I had to do what my Scouts today have to.  Not the leadership end, the going through red tape and navigating made up rules.

 

 

JerseyScout - Your story can be repeated throughout the nation and was the driving reason for the 2011 GTA and Eagle project workbook changes.  The 2011 changes were huge and dramatic and did a lot to reign in all the abuse and adult power trips.  Heck, your story mimics our district before the 2011 change.  The process is to do a good deed for the community and to plan and lead other scouts.  It is NOT a class project in an MBA program.  I feel bad for all the scouts that were scared away due to the past damage abuse.  

 

Escalate it.  This is worth getting fixed.  Keep escalating it until you find someone who can make a change.  

 

If nothing else, by not dropping the issue, you are educating people and making them aware that your current district practices are bad, wrong and essentially abusive to the scouts. 

Edited September 1, 2015 by fred johnson

[swilliams]

On 2/4/2015 at 1:55 PM, fred johnson said:

Re-reading your question made me realize it can be asking from many different directions ... For the duration of an Eagle Service Project. For their whole rank. Or, someone who serves the troop working with each Life scout to make sure they have a plan to earn Eagle. Or, someone sitting on the troop committee who works a plan to get as many scouts to earn Eagle as possible.

 

=================================================

 

But per a simple reading ... our troop lets the scouts work with any of the registered leaders as a coach or advisor (for the whole rank or for the project) ... or their parent or another adult they trust. We just make sure we contact that person and make sure they know the eagle process and will give good advice.

 

For the future, if it's not a family member, we'll make sure it's a registered scouter.

 

===============================================

 

KenDavid500 ... Please note that your question was excellent because it caused me to read and learn something I did not realize. BSA documents the project "coach" in the GTA section 9.0.2.9 "Eagle Scout Service Project Coach". BSA uses the term coach, not advisor.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

 

I learned that the district / council is supposed to assign a coach (whether from council, district or unit scouter pool) to each scout as part of approving the proposal.

 

BSA writes in GTA 9.0.2.9 paragraph six ... "Regardless, it is considered best for the council or district to designate one for every Scout who submits a project proposal for approval. The coach should then contact the Scout and suggest a first meeting, or telephone or video conference."

 

So ... it's "best" (not an inflexible rule) if a coach is assigned when the proposal is reviewed. Hmmm......

Resurrecting this old thread because I had a very similar question.  Our unit has an "Eagle Advisor".  For reasons I won't get into, my son does not want to work with this person.  So... GTA says "It is true a Scout need not accept the assistance of the service project coach.  Regardless, it is considered best for the council or district to designate one for every scout who submits a project proposal for approval."

To me, this says that if a scout doesn't want the help of the Coach provided by council, then he certainly doesn't need to work with someone from the unit, either.  Would you all think the same?

[qwazse]

On paper, I was son #2’s Eagle advisor. So, no, they aren’t required to work with someone appointed by the unit to serve scouts in hat unit.

[Eagle94-A1]

I do not know when an "Eagle Advisor" position was created, but I am guessing within the last 15 years.  So My questions is, what did folks do when advice was needed for the project before the advisor position was created?

I went to my SM.