Merit Badges - what if signed, but not earned?

[evmori]

ScouterPaul,

Why would a SM give a Scout the name of an approved MB counselor? And why wouldn't the Scout use the approved MB counselor he was given by his SM?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY]

Laura - Thanks for the comments/questions. This is good dialog for the forum.

 

Regarding the SM Conference, my point is that these situations should be caught and handled up-front, so that it doesn't become an issue at the SM Conference. I'd much rather have an ASM or myself talk to the boys at camp, recognize the difficiencies of a counselor, and work to resolve them at camp - rather than wait until a SM Conference to ask 'Did you really earn that Mammal Study MB?'. You commented "But if you have a relationship where you can just sit and talk something out with them - most of them will come to their own conclusion that getting 'handed' the badge is not serving anyone. " You are dead-on correct. I would much rather have the boys come to that conclusion, and in the Mammal Study case I mentioned, that is exactly what happened. The boys were as upset as I was about the quality of the counselor.

 

Second, you mention "I have seen troops that 'micro manage' their boys at camp ..." Yes, we micro-manage our 1st year campers. They have no reference point, so we keep a close eye on them. We back off on them the second year (and for that manner, as the week progreses during the first year). They understand the expectations that were set in their first year, and usually bring up the concerns on their own.

 

You asked "how is 'monitoring' their work in this way different from a counselor handing them a requirement or two? " In my opinion, it's very different. Our counselors aren't doing any work for them. They are the quality control mechanism. They also do the camp a service by allowing us to escalate issues appropriately. I should point out that the majority of the badge work that was done at camp was accepted as signed off by the camp counselor. There were only a few, Mammal Study being the most blatant example, where we had to re-inforce or re-do the work.

 

"Is the point of earning a badge and being at camp to LEARN and EXPLORE? I certainly hope so. There's a great little essay by B-P regarding not trying to turn MB into a formal education. His point, as I remember, is that the purpose of MBs is to encourage the boys to branch out and learn new things, but not to become experts. He stated something to the effect that if we expect the training to be the same quality as formal education, we're doing a disservice because SMs are ill-prepared for that kind of work.

 

"We have to remember that there are SOME boys who are motivated by competition and they will push themselves to 'get as many as possible". I agree. Each of our boys pursued the MBs at camp at a different level. Some only earned 2 MBs, while a couple earned 5 or 6. But I don't consider one more successful than the other. The ones that earned 5 or 6 typically took easier MBs while the ones that earned only 2 probably took tougher ones. As long as they're making an effort, I think they're all successful, according to their own level of interest or skills.

 

Thanks again for the comments.

[acco40]

As a SM when a boy comes to me to obtain a "blue card" (which my council now charges me for) I

 

1) Make sure he has met any prerequisites for the badge if any are needed.

 

2) If prerequisites are met but I feel the Scout may be unprepared for the MB (example a fifth grader who wants to take the engineering merit badge) I may advise him on the difficulty of the task but never give a blanket disapproval.

 

3) Congratulate and encourage him for opting to pursue another MB.

 

4) Ask if he has any particular counselor in mind or if he would like for me to select one or a few to choose from

 

5) Sign his card (only after he a properly filled out the other portions of the card.

 

SMs do not approve or disapprove MBC. That is the job of the training committee. I may give the training committee my 2 cents worth about a particular MBC but have no authority or desire to restrict a Scout from meeting with a "qualified" MBC. By definition, if he is a MBC he has been registered, approved and therefore is "qualified" in the eyes of the BSA. There is no "FOG" test or hoop to jump through to become a MBC.

 

In short, if signed by a MBC it IS earned.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[LauraT7]

EagleInKY -

 

I agree with all you said - and given the chance, I would (and have) done the same as you, and talked to the camp staff & program director, right then and there while still at camp about the problems with the merit badge counselor changing the badge and not giving the boys the opportunities intended by the badge.

 

but apparently, you and I attend camp and know the program well enough to challenge discrepancies where necessary.

 

How would you handle it if, like the original poster, the discrepancies with the counselor didn't come to light until camp was over and you could not talk to the counselor or camp staff and correct it on the spot? Even though I know that the MB can't be revoked - I would still like to have a talk with the boys and help them see the error of the situation. I would encourage them to complete the questionable requirements PROPERLY, and would help them find the means to do it, if necessary. I would want to head off the idea that they start to LOOK for 'easy' badges and counselors just to accumulate badges.

 

Acco40 - you don't have to BUY 'blue cards' from your council, you can print your own - many troops and camps do - and many aren't even blue! i think they even have them in Troopmaster - certainly they are available online as an Adobe file.

 

Ed -

"why wouldn't the Scout use the approved MB counselor he was given by his SM?"

 

Apparently there are many councils and districts like ours, where the MB counselors lists are either obsolete or non-existant. A boy may be given a name off a list, but not get a reply, find the counselor no longer counsels, or has even died. The lists are so bad here, that we get more information by searching ourselves - someone puts the word out that one of their boys wants to do "Law" or 'Plumbing' and the verbal network gets the word back of the name of someone in the county who counsels - it may or may not be through the boy's actual SM. counselors for some subjects are easy to find - others can be extrememly difficult!

 

Laura

 

[EagleInKY]

Laura -

 

"I would still like to have a talk with the boys and help them see the error of the situation. I would encourage them to complete the questionable requirements PROPERLY, and would help them find the means to do it, if necessary." I agree 100%. In the situation of the original post, there's little you can do after the fact, except counsel and encourage the boys to do the right thing.

 

I would, however, learn from the experience, and be aware of it the next time.

 

 

 

I also agree regarding the district MBC lists. They're pretty much non-existant. When a Scout asks for help finding an MBC, I do the following: (1) ask the Troop Advancement Chairman to help locate an MBC, (2) throw it out to the Troop Committee to see if they are qualified or know of anyone who is, and (3) ask my contacts in the area (via Roundtables, e-mail, etc.). If the person we come up with is not a registered Scouter, we have them fill out the paperwork prior to starting the MB. However, I've never seen any sort of formal approval process beyond the processing of the adult leader application.

[KoreaScouter]

I assign counselors from the district list, write their names, addresses, and phone numbers on the blue card before I give it to the Scout, and will continue to do so.

 

I know my Scouts, and and either know or can learn about the counselors from the "old timers" here. My goal is to make the best match of Scout/counselor. I look at things like proximity, availability, reputation, personality, and other intangibles.

 

A few examples:

 

- Great Family Life counselor, popular with the Scouts, but leaving for a 6-month school in two months. He won't be around when they finish, so I assign a different counselor, even though left to their own devices, the Scouts would select him only to be frustrated at the back end.

 

- Great Aviation counselor, a pilot, very thorough, but prefers to work with older Scouts. I assign younger ones to a different counselor, even though most Scouts would call the former if left up to them.

 

- Scout wants to earn Personal Fitness; has many family/church obligations on weekends. His choice as counselor is only available on weekends. I assign a counselor who works nights and is available to meet with him after school.

 

Summer camp's a little different; we may not know the counselors ahead of time. But, if it's a big council camp, and other Troops have gone ahead of you, use the network to find out who's where on the continuum. Otherwise, you roll the dice.

 

Do I deny a blue card to a Scout? Of course not, can't do that. I do try to steer them in directions I think are optimal based on their age, maturity, advancement requirements, etc. But ultimately, if they're insistent, I'll spend the two minutes and the eight cents to issue a blue card.

 

One person's micromanagement is another person's attention to detail.

 

KS

 

[ScouterPaul]

Ed

Why would a SM give a Scout the name of an approved MB counselor? Because that is the procedure.

 

And why wouldn't the Scout use the approved MB counselor he was given by his SM? There could be numerous reasons. What about the hypothetical expample that OGE gave? What if his buddy from school, belongs to a different troop, says hey I'll do it with you and let's use Mr. MBC from my Troop?

 

My point is that we can't make them use who we want - which is the same as approving the MBC for that Scout. Hopefully the Scout respects and trusts us and will use the person we gave them.

 

[evmori]

ScouterPaul,

My district advancement committee maintains an approved merit badge counselor list. When a Scout in my Troop wants to work on a merit badge we look through the list & supply the Scout with the name address & phone number of an approved merit badge counselor from the list. I also write this counselors name on the blue card then sign & date the card. If for some reason this counselor doesn't work out, we look for another one from the list.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY]

I would hope that the Scout would come back to me and say "MBC Smith didn't work out, but I found out about MBC Jones from xyz Troop, are you okay with that?", or "MBC Smith didn't work out, can you recommend someone else for me?".

 

I had a situation a couple of months ago. A Scout from a neighboring district had visited a couple of troop meetings and was interested in transfering to our troop. But, he hadn't made up his mind yet. He heard that some of our boys were getting ready to start Photography MB. He got real excited, seems the kid really likes photography. He asked if he could participate. I told him that it was okay with me, as long it was okay with the MBC (it was). However, I told him and his dad (who was an ASM in the other troop) that I couldn't give him a blue card, since he wasn't a member of our troop. His SM would need to give him a blue card. And, if he needed information about the MBC credentials, we could provide that to them. Both of them seemed shocked at this. In fact, they haven't been back. I can only assume that they were used to a troop that didn't follow the rules the way we did.

 

Was I correct in not giving him a blue card since he wasn't a member of our troop?