delayed/deferred/denied rank advancement after BOR. Why?

[andysmom]

We had a BOR for a scout to earn his Star rank who was asked to reappear before the board in 2 weeks. I am interested in a couple of things, one of which is if the committee should provide, in writing, the reason why the scout is asked to return. We read the policy in the 2013 Guide To Advancement and there was a difference of opinion in the interpretation. And secondly, and more importantly, for what specific reasons can (or should) a scout should be delayed/deferred/denied rank advancement after a BOR.

 

The scout had all requirements signed off in his book, held his position as the troop librarian for 4 months and 1 week and completed a specific task asked of him by the SM in his position and has more than the required number of merit badges, both Eagle required and not. The scout is 13 years old.

[scoutldr]

The scout should not leave the BOR not understanding why he was not approved. If he was asked to come back in two weeks, he should be clear on what the board is expecting to see/hear when he comes back.

[andysmom]

He was asked to come back in 2 weeks to show some sort of "leadership" while doing a scout skill. He is choosing to set up a tent.

 

I guess to show that he can teach something to someone.

[qwazse]

Boyscouts love paperwork ... So put it in writing. That said, this isn't that unusual. Ask the SM if he thinks the decision is reasonable. Usually, the SM conference nips these issues in the bud. It's odd that this issue wasn't identified before the BoR.

[andysmom]

The SM is furious and threatened to quit, actually it is all I can do to keep him from leaving right now.

 

The reason given was that they would "like the boy to show more leadership" the reason he gave to the committee was he had a "gut feeling" the boy wasn't ready and if he "showed up in 6 mos for a Life BOR he would be eaten alive"

 

There were 4 of us on the board. The CC who is stepping down next month after 19 years, his unilateral appointee for his replacement who was SM form 2000-2004 and has been on the committee since (she shows up for Eagle BOR and some Life, he has been to exactly 7 committee meetings in the last 7 years, I counted), our brand new, as of this month, COR who has been involved in scouting for about a year and a half, and myself who has been on the committee for 4 years and have been pretty well trained (my husband is the district training chair and I have attended our council's all day training pow wow for the last 3 years)

[Stosh]

It could be an issue that came up from the time the requirements were signed off and the convening of the BOR. I'm sure the boy was told what was necessary to be done in the two week time period when the Board reconvenes. Whether or not the boy wishes to make that public knowledge is up to the boy.

 

If the BOR is going to be nothing more than a chit-chat with the boy, with no re-testing, no re-viewing, no questions asked, kind of thing, then I would say, just do away with the process. Obviously the Board had some concerns, that's why it's there. They didn't say NO, they just said, take a couple of weeks to "fix" the Board's concerns and then they're done.

 

If this process didn't occur occasionally, I would seriously question the quality of the BOR's work.

 

I don't think it needs to be in writing. I'm sure the boy knew exactly why the Board was hesitant. The issue is between the BOR and the boy. Everyone else needs to MYOB.

 

Stosh

[andysmom]

I thought a BOR was to talk with the scout to indirectly evaluate that he has completed the rank requirements (no retesting), to see how the troop is running from the scout's perspective so the committee can evaluate how well the troop is running it's program and give feedback to the scoutmaster, to encourage the boy to continue his journey in scouting, to be sure he is living his life according to the scout oath and law, and to provide interactions with adults.

 

I think the vague thing is the question about if he is getting our of the program what he should be. How do we qualify that and how do we tell a scout what we expect?

 

I am not saying we should "rubber stamp" everyone but what is the standard?

[Stosh]

While one always has a tendency to jump to conclusions, could it also be possible that the boy was relating his experience with the troop and providing some excellent feedback to the BOR that they simply ran out of time. "Joe has a family commitment next week so we can't reconvene then, but let's get together in two weeks to continue this great discussion."

 

 

Why does the mind always jump to the worse case scenario?

 

I find that MYOB helps me sleep better at night. If I were the SM of this troop, I would simply let the boy know that I was available to talk if there is something that went on in the BOR that he feels I might be able to help him with. After all, I might be the person that is the problem, too. It's not my job to interfere, just to help.

 

Stosh

[KenDavis500]

Andysmom - I'm confused. You said you were one of the 4 on the board, but you don't know the reason the Scout was asked to come back?

[Hueymungus]

The Board is not trained in what a Board does. The Scout does not leave the BOR without knowing why. It's not a re-test/testing. The SM and Advancement Chair of the Troop should review all requirements before going to a SM/BOR. Though a SM can be had at anytime for any reason.

[andysmom]

Andysmom - I'm confused. You said you were one of the 4 on the board' date=' but you don't know the reason the Scout was asked to come back?[/quote']

 

That is exactly my point.

The committee chair stated that he didn't feel the scout was ready for star.

He wanted to see some leadership from him.

He wanted to slow him down.

He said he wanted to use the fact that the date in his handbook for when he started his POR was 8/14 (he needs 4 mos) as an "out"

 

The scout wasnt in the room for any of this.

 

I threatened to walk out.

 

The scout was asked what his best scout skill was. He said camping. He was asked to be more specific, what was he really good at. He said setting up a tent. He was told that "a journey of 1000 miles starts with one step, he has gone 999 miles of that journey and they the committee wants to see that he can provide leadership" they asked him to come back in 2 weeks and set up a tent, he could "even use a troop tent", but set the tent up for us so we can see that that he can lead someone to doing it.

 

His Dad emailed the SM as said that the scout was pretty upset but that he wants to ace the next board and he is going to have his son email the sm after school so the sm could tell him exactly what he needs to work on. Telling him to set up a tent sounds silly, especially when he has to demonstrate leadership doing it. The 2 committee members couldnt tell specifically what they look for in a star scout saying that it varies by the boy.

[andysmom]

I am not claiming to know everything, that's why I come here and read message boards and subscribe to newsletters and take training and read the policy guides. I think what happened to this scout was wrong. He is a good scout. I am at 99.9% of meetings, I have spent time at camp because we dont have enough other leaders to step up so I have been the 2nd adult. I know these boys. He should have advanced.

 

I feel bullied because I am a woman and havent been in the program as long as they have. They kept saying "in my experience we do an injustice to a boy by advancing him to fast" and "remember so-and-so who made his Eagle in 2008 he was a good scout". I honestly think that if I hadnt put up a fuss they would have asked him to come back in 4 months rather than 2 weeks.

 

On a more personal note, my son completed his SMC for star last night and I feel like I have no idea what the committee (ok these 2 leaders) are looking for.

[KenDavis500]

Recommend to the Committee Chair that ALL Committee members get training for Board of Reviews. Our District Advancement Chair gave ours.

[Stosh]

Whoa... I misread the original post. If you were part of this BOR and have inside information the scout was not privy to, there are so many things thus described that are wrong, I would approach the CC and let them reconvene a valid BOR group that knows what they are doing. Sounds like "these two leaders" are adding to requirements that have already been fulfilled, a major no-no in scouting. I hope that the CC is not one of "these two leaders" in that you are really screwed if that is the case.

 

By the way, these separate hoops the BOR is requiring are bogus and outside the scope of the Scout Law. One does not show leadership by setting up tents and I don't believe there is anything in the requirement that says a boy has to show leadership in anything required for Star.

 

In the future I would refuse to sit on any BOR for this troop until they were properly trained and held accountable for their actions.

 

Boy joins at 11, by 12 his could be FC, by 12 yr 4 mo he could be Star. What gives "these two leaders" justification that 13 is too young for Star and they have taken it upon themselves to deal with something that BSA has strictly forbidden?

 

I would get my UC involved with this issue immediately.

 

Stosh

[perdidochas]

We had a BOR for a scout to earn his Star rank who was asked to reappear before the board in 2 weeks. I am interested in a couple of things, one of which is if the committee should provide, in writing, the reason why the scout is asked to return. We read the policy in the 2013 Guide To Advancement and there was a difference of opinion in the interpretation. And secondly, and more importantly, for what specific reasons can (or should) a scout should be delayed/deferred/denied rank advancement after a BOR.

 

The scout had all requirements signed off in his book, held his position as the troop librarian for 4 months and 1 week and completed a specific task asked of him by the SM in his position and has more than the required number of merit badges, both Eagle required and not. The scout is 13 years old.

 

A specific task for 4 months and a week to count as a POR? Two weeks isn't that much of a delay.

 

That said, slowing him down just to slow him down isn't justified. In our troop, we do have boys that "fail" at their PORs, and have to start fresh or do a Scoutmaster approved leadership project.