Scouter915 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think the extent of what I would do would be to let the scout leaders know of my disapproval of the action. Not sure if I want to pull my kid out or move packs...haven't made that decision yet. I guess it depends on their reaction to my voicing my opinion of the matter. If its "hey, it's no big deal, just a movie...get over it" type response, I'll yank him immediately. If its "we are sorry, didn't realize the crime, it won't happen again, thanks for bringing it to our attention..." I will probably leave him in the pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 My son attended a scout lock-in at the local armory recently. While there, there were many great scouting activities and fun games for the kids. My issue is that they showed a movie to all kids that I believe was illegally copied since it's not out on video or DVD yet...I doubt the kids know, but I do and it's bothered me to some extent. I'm not sure if I want to pursue a course of action or let it go...My initial thought was to talk to the pack leader or whoever's in charge and let them know my feelings on the matter. The movie in question was Big Hero 6. It's currently in theaters... Any thoughts...?? Talk to the Pack Leader or whoever was in charge, and talk about setting a good example, and the legality of the thing. That said, technically, unless you get written permission, you aren't allowed to show any copyrighted videos in a group setting. The after school care my kids went to, had a prominently displayed letter giving them permission to show works from certain companies. Interestingly, they didn't have permission to show Disney movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 My thoughts are that there is so much trouble in the world that we cannot avoid, to me it doesn't make sense to go looking for more. It is possible that the person running the event made special arrangements to show the film. Isn't that good enough? Of course, if you want to speak to him, it's your dime, as we used to say, but if you do, my suggestion would be that instead of "letting them know your feelings on the matter," you just ask, in a non-accusatory tone, what special arrangements they were able to make to show a current theatrical release. If you don't get a good answer, then you can let them know your feelings. Just my opinion. It's a Disney movie, and Disney rarely gives permission to show their videos in a public setting. I've known of schools that sent off for written permission to show videos, and invariably Disney does not give permission for free, they require joining some kind of service that gives permission. It's a matter of ethics--a Scout is Trustworthy. Buying or making an illegal copy of a movie and showing it to an audience is illegal and more importantly immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 you could just ignore it' date=' as the kids had a good time. I would not think twice about torrenting a film to show to my group, as on the grand scheme of things its not the biggest transgression in the world.[/quote'] There are plenty of movies you could get that don't involve getting pirated copies. It's illegal and unethical. It's easy for those of us not dependent on copyrights for a living to ignore those kinds of laws, but it's unfair to those who do depend on copyrights for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The world's rife with transgressions. But let's ask ourselves, why wouldn't we want to find a way to compensate all of those actors for their cinematic genius? If their work product isn't worth that much, why wouldn't we have some older scouts make a home-spun video with which to entertain our cubs? My worry isn't the actors. It's all the other countless people who work on a movie. They all have mortgages, utilities, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter915 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 If it had been a rented video from the local Blockbuster I would not have had a problem...This is a movie still in the theater and there is only one way to get a movie like that prior to it being officially released to the public and that is to knowingly download or get a copy of an illegally downloaded version. The crime itself is punishable up to 5 years with huge $$$$ fines. That's if you get caught though and most studios are not going to seek out a local scout troop for a violation. Still doesn't make it right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I still see no confirmation of any illegal activity here, just a lot of supposition and guesswork. Call me crazy, but I am not ready to convict someone I don't know for something I didn't see, based on the assumptions of another person I don't know. And the original poster said he was going to ASK the leader, which is the right move. So maybe we should see what the answer is before we get out the handcuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter915 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I still see no confirmation of any illegal activity here' date=' just a lot of supposition and guesswork. .[/quote'] Really??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Porter Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It seems like you have 2 potential violations - Showing a copywritten movie to a group without permission. Libraries, schools, churches etc can pay for licenses that cover a lot of film companies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Licensing_Corporation license so the charter organization may have this. There is a decent change that the charter organization is covered. This does require that the movie was legally obtained which leads us to - I don't know of legal means to obtain a major movie while it is still in the theater. I assume there are some. Movies may be sent to critics prior to their release but I would think those has strings attached. I know that there are illegal means and some people don't seem to have an ethical problem . This is what I would suspect here. If this is the case I am sure the guy could care less about the license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Really??? I agree with NJ. How do you KNOW this was a pirated copy? How do you KNOW they are in violation of copyright? That's the reason for the way I structured my questions before, so you could ask them in a way that would tend to disarm them and perhaps arrive at the truth in their own words. Until you've done that (and perhaps I've missed that you have, and if so I apologize) you are working from a conclusion based on supposition and guesswork. I follow your suspicion and I would be just as suspicious but as an ethical matter, you owe it to them and to yourself to actually KNOW before you accuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Technically, renting a movie from Blockbuster/Netflix/Redbox and showing it at a pack meeting, would be a violation as well. They aren't licensed for public viewings. Our library does group viewings of movies twice a month - but they also get permission to do so through a service that libraries can join. Yes - that means showing "Follow Me Boys" in it's entirety at a troop meeting would be a violation if anyone chose to object and pursue. Copying a couple of pages of knots out of a book to hand out? Not so much - it's likely covered under the fair use doctrine - provided that you aren't copying the entire book and handing it out. This movie won't be released on video until late February. It is also not currently available as a Video on Demand movie (I checked). Unless this was an advanced screening copy of the DVD, it would have had to be illegally downloaded - which just opens up a second can of worms - first, the issue of showing it in the first place, then the issue of illegally downloading it (and yes, torrenting it is illegal - if someone wouldn't think twice about illegally torrenting a movie, perhaps they need to think twice about whether they are capable of living up to the Scout Oath and Law and being a leader. Illegally downloading a movie, beyond being, well, illegal, is also morally wrong (thou shalt not steal) and if one wouldn't think twice about it, then one obviously isn't doing their best to be morally straight). I'd suggest a friendly chat with the folks who ran the lock-in and a reminder that the boys will follow examples - what we do - far more than they will what we say. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 you could just ignore it' date=' as the kids had a good time. I would not think twice about torrenting a film to show to my group, as on the grand scheme of things its not the biggest transgression in the world.[/quote'] Exactly. Just like stealing... err shoplifting (that sounds so much better) a pack of bubblegum isn't going to bring down the economy. Heck, why not pickup a enough gum for the kids -- they would have a good time with that. Oh yeah, while where at it, let's just go camp on that wooded lot that belongs to someone else without asking permission -- they aren't using it anyway. Oh yeah, that person who bought $20 of popcorn, they will probably forget about their order, so I can just keep the $20 as a donation to my camping gear fund and not put in the order. Oh and that term paper, I can just copy the one I found on the internet... my teacher won't notice the difference and that will allow me to go on the campout this weekend and have a good time. Integrity is shown in how you behave when you think nobody is watching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It is obviously wrong. Devils advocate here... what if they were handing out copies from a book that showed the scouts how to tie knots? More than likely that would violate a copyright. It is amazing how much people no longer value intellectual property. It is pretty common to do a search on some subject and you find different websites that have the same text, one of the sites copied w/o referencing the original text. Copyright law permits for "fair use" and "educational" exceptions. I suspect photocopies of a select number of pages would fall under those exceptions. As for the use and abuse of intellectual property on the internet, the abuse is just evidence of our failure to effectively teach what is ethical and not ethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Cheating is rampant in schools and colleges, and the kids think nothing of it. I once heard my son telling his cousin how to rip music off the internet. They were dumbfounded when I suggested that there was something morally wrong (not to mention illegal) about that. Once I got over charged at a Home Depot (an expensive item didn't get scanned), and when I returned to pay what I owed, the cashier and manager looked at me like I had 3 heads. The problem is, they all can sleep perfectly well at night (unlike me), because it doesn't even occur to them that they've done something wrong. We have failed. At least I've learned what "torrenting" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I agree with NJ. How do you KNOW this was a pirated copy? How do you KNOW they are in violation of copyright? That's the reason for the way I structured my questions before, so you could ask them in a way that would tend to disarm them and perhaps arrive at the truth in their own words. Until you've done that (and perhaps I've missed that you have, and if so I apologize) you are working from a conclusion based on supposition and guesswork. I follow your suspicion and I would be just as suspicious but as an ethical matter, you owe it to them and to yourself to actually KNOW before you accuse. There is almost no chance that if the movie really was Big Hero 6 that it is not in violation of copyright. It's called common sense, and based on knowledge of the world. I wouldn't suggest calling the cops on it, but questioning is in order. Do you and NJ seriously beleive that, or are you just being devil's advocates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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