Scout Leader Ethics

[perdidochas]

Just to play devil's advocate... Lets imagine for a second you're on the other side of this situation. (This is purely hypothetical, I have no knowledge of this particular situation, I'm merely offering this as a "walk in the other guy's shoes" moment).

 

Maybe I'm a Scout leader who volunteered to help at this lock-in thing (presumably an overnight event?) So that means I give up a weekend night to supervise an undisclosed number of amped up boys on whose sugar high is competing with their fatigue. I need to come up with 12 hours of program to keep them entertained, figure out the logistics of reserving the facility, feeding the group, collecting permission slips, fielding phone calls and emails, etc etc etc. I have a bright idea that maybe if I can pop in a movie, that will cover a couple hours and maybe I can catch a few hours of sleep before driving home the following morning.

 

Now maybe I'm not a particularly technologically literate person. I don't know the difference between Hulu and Youtube and BitTorrent. But I know that I can get movies over the Internet, so I ask my 14 year old son if he can help me out. He says "yup" and an hour later I have a DVD in my hand. Now maybe I was remiss in my responsibilities as a parent and should have grilled the boy on how he came up with this DVD, but frankly I'm just happy the kid agreed to do something for me without coping an attitude, and oh boy Mrs. Jones is calling here AGAIN to make sure that we'll have gluten-free free-range vegan organic couscous as a late night snack because anything eating anything else makes little Johnny Jones' armpits itch. So I slip the DVD into my overflowing box of supplies for this event, and move on to more pressing matters (like how the council office still can't find the tour permit that I already mailed in twice, or my assistant leader suddenly has to fly to Tajikistan that weekend and I need to find more adult coverage on short notice, and now my wife just got home from the grocery store frantic because they were out of gluten-free couscous and do I think hummus would be close enough to keep Johnny Jones' armpits comfortable?).

 

So finally I get to the event, and we manage to pull it off successfully without any serious injury, just the usual "organized chaos" that is this "game with a purpose" that we all DO OUR BEST to deliver as best we can using only the gifts God gave us.

 

Now, say after all this, a armchair-lawyer comes up to me to lecture me on copyright law and to notify me that that I committed a felony punishable by a $30,000 fine and 6 years in federal prison and whatever else your fellow armchair lawyers think you can do to me... I'd start to wonder how 6 years in the pen would stack up to another 6 years volunteering with an organization where this is the kind of "thanks" I get... I mean, where were you when I was corrupting, I mean babysitting, I mean supervising YOUR kid at this event?

 

Yes, this is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But my point is quite serious. This is obviously an important issue to you. And I hear you that you won't go into this conversation "guns blazing," and I'm sure you think you'll be very calm and reasonable. But for the guy on the other side of the conversation, this could easily be a "death by a thousand papercuts" situation. You're worried about copyright law, Mrs. Jones is upset because no, hummus is NOT an acceptable substitute for couscous and what was I thinking and how did I screw up such simple instructions, and Mr. Smith showed up an hour late to pick up his kid and I'M TIRED AND I JUST WANT TO GO HOME. Not to mention the actual problems like the kid who I suspect might be a victim of neglect, the kid with anger issues whose at the edge of being kicked out of the pack because we just can't find a way to keep everyone safe with him around, etc etc etc.

 

Just take an extra second to decide if this is really an issue, in the great scheme of things.

 

Your scenario is far-fetched. It is not easy to do all the steps necessary to go from a bit-torrent image to a DVD. You have to be tech savvy to do it. This is an important issue--it's basically being TRUSTWORTHY and OBEDIENT to the law. It's simply not a good example.

[perdidochas]

 

I thinks there would be an ignorance to not know that it's a violation of some sorts...If Big Hero 6 is playing at the local multiplex and charging $8 per ticket, $6 for popcorn, $4 for a large drink...Why would anyone think it's ok to play it for FREE at the local armory to a group of Cub Scouts...It should have raised a red flag for the cub master or any of the den leaders.

 

I know there are bigger problems in the world...even in our community. I certainly would not report this offense to the authorities or even threaten to do so. At most, I would "reveal" the possible ramifications of getting caught to the scout leaders. I don't want to make waves...I want to do whats best for my kid though. I'm not sure I'd be doing the right thing if I didn't at least say something...I don't want to be a bystander or sit on the sidelines while ethical judgment calls are being made wrongly. I'm not perfect either, but I would expect the same to me if I were doing something that's morally, ethically, or legally wrong.

 

Once again I am surprised by the "Devils's Advocate" posts about this. I'm not sure if it's a justification for some or the plain fact that some people will go to great lengths to convince themselves that "it's no big deal..." or "it's not that bad...". Shocking really...some people might need to check the magnet in their moral compass to make sure it's functioning properly...

 

I pretty much agree.

[wdfa89]

I guess I don't understand this thread--or more specifically why it was started. I am not taking a side in this issue, just commenting on the conversation. The original poster states he is coming here for guidance and opinions and then argues against all opinions contrary to the one he clearly already held. Now if this thread was to solidify his belief or help him confirm to himself he is right then ok. I have enjoyed the conversation but it is 6 pages of "it's wrong" or "not that bad" and the OP seems to already have a clear idea of what he thinks should be done, a clear willingness to do it, and not much use for anything counter to those ideas.

[Stosh]

wdfa89, I think the reason the thread went on so long is not necessarily the actual slight of ethics, but the fact that we have people in our society that wouldn't take a candy bar off the shelf of a convenience store and walk out without paying, but at the same time have a movie to play for the boys and think nothing of the fact that what he stole was far more expensive than a stupid candy bar.

 

Stosh

[wdfa89]

I get the dilemma. Shoot, it isn't really a dilemma. it is wrong. I didn't understand why someone ostensibly came here for guidance when they clearly knew what they wanted to do, then spent 6 pages arguing their position.

[qwazse]

I get the dilemma. Shoot' date=' it isn't really a dilemma. it is wrong. I didn't understand why someone ostensibly came here for guidance when they clearly knew what they wanted to do, then spent 6 pages arguing their position. [/quote']

 

It just so happened we generally agreed with the OP's concerns and how to handle them. (I.e., go to the source, talk sincerely, be open minded.)

 

I guess he would have acted differently had we all piped up that scouts have some general dispensation exempting them from copyright law, and he should sit on his hands.

 

Obviously the OP is providing us a case study. With younger leaders who have grown up desensitized to pirated material, this kind of conversation will eventually make it into the handbook.

[Scouter915]

I get the dilemma. Shoot' date=' it isn't really a dilemma. it is wrong. I didn't understand why someone ostensibly came here for guidance when they clearly knew what they wanted to do, then spent 6 pages arguing their position. [/quote']

 

This is a scouting forum...I was seeking advice as to how to approach the situation since it was a scouting environment in which it happened. You are darn right I already knew it was wrong...I didn't come here for that validation.

 

The 6 pages of posts in regards to the initial post were for your viewing pleasure...​​

[Stosh]

Scouter915,

 

I kinda thought you knew it to be wrong or you wouldn't have taken the time to post. While some of the advice is great, I was surprised by the number of responders who kinda blew it off as no big deal. That bothered me more than raising the red flag on a gut check. Have we been that desensitized towards this whole idea of intellectual property is something one must pay for just like everything else?

 

Stosh

 

[scoutldr]

I agree with Stosh...I wonder how many of the other rules and laws they blow off as "not worth worrying about"...

[GeorgiaMom]

I have been a professional author for over 20 years. I have seen how piracy is killing the careers and income of many content creators, including mine. I just want to say thank you to those who treat my work and the work of others with honesty and respect. GeorgiaMom