ddubois Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I am aware of the policy within Guide to Safe Scouting regarding shower usage that states: "Separate accommodations for adults and Scouts required. When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his or her own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers. Likewise, youth and adults must shower at different times." At a Boy Scout camp, this is staightforward enough. My problem is that almost universally, during family camps with Cub Scouts, our parents choose to escort their boys, and, presuambly (since I'm not watching!), shower with them. It doesn't feel appropriate for me as Cubmaster to interfere with or discourage them from doing that. Heck, I even take my boys to the shower. (The alternative is sending them down there unsupervised and praying they don't do anything to embarrass me, lol!) I think most people, like me, usually just take turns if the shower area of the site doesn't afford privacy between stalls, and wait for the former occupant to be finished before entering and potentially invading their personal space. I've never heard of there being any incidents whre it was awkward, with someone pulling up right next to a currently showering kid to use an adjecent shower head, or anything like that. Is our Pack atypical in this regard? Am I really "breaking the rules" by not trying to put down my foot here? Should we try to institute "youth-only shower time", "adult-only shower time" and "family shower time"?!? PS: A separate issue is that some of the mothers of the younger boys, generally the one's that do not have a husband present, take them into the women's restroom with them (maybe even for showers, I'm not sure, since I don't go in the ladies room). I wouldn't mind intiating some discouragement of that practice, but that's probably another post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattman578 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You shower at camp I did not know you could do that. and no I do not think you are breaking the rules or anything. When it comes to youth protection the parent is in charge not you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Showers? SHOWERS?!?!?!?!?!?!?! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING SHOWERS In all seriousness, you're good to go. And having the pre-Cub age siblings in the female bathrooms is a common thing I've seen. I just wish my council would get with the program. Two of the camps that Cubs use for camping do not have showers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisg478 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Our local council camps have separate bathrooms/showers for youth males, adult males and females. We also have latrines (no shower) in most of the campsites. Most of our Cub Scout events or summer camps only last 2-3 days so most people don't bother with a shower. And in the summer most of the kids will say they don't need another shower because they had to walk through a shower to get into the pool. We do our best to get people to follow the rules about adults in the adult bathrooms, youth in the youth bathrooms but we are not fanatics about it. All females use the same bathrooms anyway. Younger siblings and a lot of the younger cubs go into the adult restrooms with their parents. I know there are parents that take their kids in the adult showers with them. But that makes it the parents responsibility to watch their kid and keep them safe. If we can keep the adult males out of the youth male bathrooms that is a success. In your case, as long as people are respecting other people's privacy, and parents are being responsible for their own children, I wouldn't get too stressed out about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Porter Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Family camping is odd. What rules should be followed and what rules are not. I have seen family "camping" at scout camps where a unit can rent a cabin with one big room with bunk beds. So you end up with multiple families (and genders) in the same room. I question that the building was built this was in the first place. Most of the camp sites that I have been to now have individual doors for the showers so each becomes a private room. Pool houses seem to have 4 separate bathrooms and showers separated by age and gender. I have heard some scouts discussing that they were going to shower in their swim suits. Which is fine if that is what they want to do. Another area where it could be questioned is when you are using a public pool or gym. Even if the showers are private the changing / locker area isn't and unless you are renting the entire facility you can't keep everyone out while the scouts are changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Sometimes you need to adapt, improvise, and overcome. Public facilities is one example. Another would be the emergency situation where we had everyone, in two rooms. All the youth were in one room, all the adults, including females, were in another. It was one instance where I was glad son got sick and went home prior to the storm. you could go swimming in the tents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ah yes, yester-year, when vanity and fear were seldom an issue and all males shared facilities most places and nobody seemed worse for wear. Kids took real showers in school too; and they were group stalls. Can you imagine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The problem is that BSA has explicit rules. Furthermore, they REQUIRE us to be trained in those rules and get a receipt for the training. If there are no problems. you have no problems. If there happens to BE a problem, YOU are responsible if you knowingly permit violations of the rules. If you violate the rules, BSA might choose to cut you loose should legal action be taken against you. You should expect plaintiff's lawyers to cross examine you about the training you took and your disinclination to take those rules seriously. AND you should BE PREPARED to have a few million dollar judgment lodged against you and have pretty much everything you own taken to satisfy a judgment against you. If we have a lawyer in the group, I'd be interested in their advice on these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 G2SS is not for the protection of the youth, it is for YOUR protection. No family showers? That's unfortunate, but here's the rules.... In the BWCA there are no showers to worry about. The trek is usually a week long. And then we have parents on an overnight that can't have a shower in the PM or AM with their under-aged kids who trek along? Too bad. Scouting is an outdoor activity and unless it rains, you're not guaranteed a shower. Stosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Porter Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You take a cub scout pack on a week long BWCA trip? I could see some Webelos being able to handle it but the younger scouts I assume they struggle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The point being, a cub scout should be able to handle a weekend without having to have a shower with his parents. If he can't handle that and there are no facilities that can accommodate him, he'll just have to take a pass on that activity. I know of a few boy scouts that won't go to BWCA or Philmont because it's too rugged. Applies to cubs too. The program is for the development of our boys, not the entertainment of their families. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 One thing to remember, Cub Scout camping is FAMILY camping (emphasis, not shouting). Yep Cubs should be able to handle it. But the pre-Cub age youth may be an issue. I know the wife took my boys in the bathrooms with her when they were not Cubs. On a different note, is BWCA still or running water? If' it's still water, and the Cubs pass a swim test, good to go. If running water, NOPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisg478 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 A suggestion - Why don't you show the YPT training video to all the parents before going on your next pack overnighter? Your District Training Chair should be able to help you locate a DVD copy and/or run the training for you. I have several units in my district that do this training with all the parents that are going to summer camp with the pack/troop. They feel it is helpful for all the adults to know the rules ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 One thing to remember, Cub Scout camping is FAMILY camping (emphasis, not shouting). Yep Cubs should be able to handle it. But the pre-Cub age youth may be an issue. I know the wife took my boys in the bathrooms with her when they were not Cubs. On a different note, is BWCA still or running water? If' it's still water, and the Cubs pass a swim test, good to go. If running water, NOPE! This is why I haven't been involved with the Cub program for 20+ years now. It's no longer just for the boys. BWCA is 99% lakes, 1% rapids between some of them that can easily be portaged. Yes, a Cub Scout can go to BWCA. I've seen quite a few families with Cub aged youth and younger up there. I've also seen Cub Scouts leave early from a picnic and fun activity in a city park, because there were no flush toilets, only pits. Suck it up Cupcake, my 8 year old daughter (Not the tomboy one, the fancy dress one) has done the BWCA for a week. We got out there to the step off point and she said, "Where's the restroom." I handed her a roll of TP and said, any pink tree will do just fine." When my children where younger and needed a parent to help in the restroom, we didn't go camping. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 a little off topic of the showers, but still related..... I am troubled by the whole bathroom thing. When you are camping in a state park or some similar place, there are public restrooms Really the same thing at our local BSA reservation there's a general public mens room and there's a general public ladies room. there are not separate youth only rooms no way to know if their are youth in there before I walk in.... and nothing in place for them to keep them out while I'm in there. The unwritten rule, at least around here.... seems to be that with cubs, it's all family camping so it's no different that the bathroom at your local Burger King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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