Camp outs and working towards merit badges

[joesport5]

I put in all the paperwork to become a MBC, however know it looks like I might become the Scoutmaster as ours is moving. My question is this; when the boys do their overnight camp outs can we work on merit badge requirement without any MBC on the trip. When we get back from the trip the kids turn in their cards based on whatever we might have done on the trip to an approved merit badge counselor for that badge?

 

Thanks for any help

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forums! I copied your original question to this forum because it was the better forum for you to get responses. I will close the other thread and leave a message to redirect anyone who is interested.

Edit: Well, it seems that 'Copy' really means 'Move'...sorry. This forum will have the responses to many other merit badge questions as well.

 

Now, in response to your question I will use 'Camping' as the example since you didn't mention a specific merit badge and I presume that camp outs are not likely to be where you work on, say, home repairs or welding, lol. In the case of camping, or others like it, a troop or patrol camp out is a great place to complete requirements. Ideally the MBC would know about such a plan in advance and some arrangement can be worked out to provide evidence if needed. Frankly, I think that for hiking or backpacking and MB's like those, it would be an unusual MBC who accompanied the scout for all of the advancement steps.

[Twocubdad]

Welcome, Joe.

 

Depends on what you mean by "work on". If you mean learn and practice skills associated with the merit badge, no problem. If you mean complete requirements and expect the counselor to accept your or the Scouts word, I would say that depends on the requirement and the counselor.

 

Again, Camping as an example -- I doubt any Camping counselor would not accept the troop's records of a Scout's nights camping in satisfaction for the requirements. No problem. But I equally doubt a counselor would accept that a Scout explained the principles of Leave No Trace to a leader on a campout. It's just too easy to say, "okay, but explain it to me again now." A counselor needs to use reasonableness and look at the wording of the requirement. If a kid says he climbed a 2500 foot mountain at Philmont last year, it is unreasonable to disallow that because the counselor wasn't on the trek. But a counselor's default setting needs to be that the "do", "show", "demonstrate," "explain" requirements need to be completed with the counselor. If you were a First Aid counselor (almost all demonstrate/explain requirements) would you accept that a Scout completed all those requirements with someone else? I hope not.

 

Camping is a bad example, though. Unless you're in a district where the MB counselors really are random district-level volunteers, why isn't the Camping counselor regularly camping with the troop? Our tradition has been that the Scoutmaster and one or more of the ASM are registered counselor.

 

I know this is your first post, but if you've been reading these forums before, you know if you ask one question your get answers for all sorts of things you didn't ask about, so here goes:

 

First, you should be encouraging your Scouts to meet with the counselor before substantially beginning the badge. The counselor should be thought of as the merit badge teacher to whom the Scout goes to learn the material. If the Scout knows it all already and is just using the counselor to check the boxes, what's the point? I hope our counselors are adding value even on topics for which the Scout may have some level of mastery. Not that they add to the requirements, but I want them to add to the Scout's knowledge and experience beyond what is simply required for the badge. That's the Adult Association method at work -- Scouts sitting down besides adults of high character who are experts in their field. If all the counselors are doing is "grading" the worksheets off Merit Badge.com, you need new counselors.

 

Also, I hope what you mean by Scouts working on merit badges during campouts is an organic, Scout-originated process of a Scout approaching a leader or older Scout and asking for help with a particular skill. Or perhaps even a patrol deciding they are all going to sleep in survival shelters for the weekend for Wilderness Survival MB. I would caution you to not let merit badges become too much of a focus for the troop. Please don't run troop merit badge classes. Our troop will sometimes do "merit badge topics" as part of troop instruction time and campouts. If a Scout participates in the instruction, he will gain much of the information he needs to complete the merit badge, but the Scout still has to put in the time and effort to actually complete the requirements and make an appointment with the counselor.

[Hedgehog]

As others have pointed out, it depends on the badge and the wording of the requirement. I break down merit badges into three groups of requirements: learning, showing and doing. Learning can be done in merit badge classes or by the scout on their own. Learning is acquiring the background knowledge. I have no problems with the boys using the merit badge book or even the on line worksheets to guide their learning. Showing includes actually demonstrating a skill or having a discussion with the merit badge counselor. Showing needs to be done to with the merit badge counselor. Doing needs to be done on outings.

 

Camping, hiking, cooking and backpacking all require activities that need to be done in the outdoors. It doesn't make sense that the merit badge counselor be there for all of those activities. A scout is trustworthy, so if they tell me they did something, I take them at their word. However, I do ask that they tell me about it. Where did you hike, what did you cook, where did you camp and what did you learn doing it?

 

I've been encouraging the boy leaders in our troop to be more cognizant of opportunities to meet advancement and merit badge requirements and to incorporate them into the outings. For example, we have volunteers to do the cooking so that they can satisfy the T-1st cooking requirements, we have one or two scouts in charge of campout planning so that they can satisfy the camping merit badge requirements and we try to plan several backpacking trips so that the boys can log the necessary miles.

 

 

[Scouter99]

Your question seems to betray a basic misunderstanding of the MB program.

First, MBs are not part of the troop program. Many troop activities align with MBs (just peruse the list in Troop Program Features) but troop activities should not be merit badge school.

MBs are an individual pursuit. The scout grows through conferring with his SM about what MB he'd like to work on and getting feedback from the SM, then by getting the names of counselors and contacting them on his own, then by scheduling meetings with the counselor. The program is set up in a certain way to get certain results in the 3 Aims of Scouting (PDF): character, citizenship, and fitness. These aims are accomplished via the methods, in this case, personal growth, association with adults.

Because MBs are an individual pursuit, you should not plan troop program around them because you will inevitably bore and exclude large numbers of your Scouts from any such activity--the ones who already earned it, the ones who don't want to earn it, the ones who don't care.

 

You can read about the MB program here: http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx

 

Counselors are called counselors rather than after-the-fact-stampers for a reason: The work is done under their guidance. When you put the cart ahead of the horse--go and sign off blue cards during a troop event before a counselor is contacted and outside of the entire MB program--you are confusing a method (advancement) for an aim. Badges are not the point of merit badges.

 

Encourage your scouts to pursue MBs, but encourage them to do it the right way so that they get the true fruit. If you want to center a campout around MB requirements, then the boys (not you) should get in touch with a counselor beforehand, and plan their activity with his guidance.

[scoutergipper]

I agree I wouldn't emphasize Merit Badge work on campouts (or at Troop Meetings for that matter) for the reasons listed. I like to see my Scouts engaged with each other, and spending time on work the Patrol has to get done rather than individuals all doing their own thing.

[joesport5]

Thank you all so much I will continue to read and research. It seems like every camp out I went on the boys had no focus and just did spur of the moment stuff with the boys while out there. i want them to look forward to going...

[TAHAWK]

If planning starts with one or more objectives, focus is not a problem. What do the leaders want their patrols to experience? Better, what do their patrol members want to experience? Sunrise on top of a mountain or at some location on an eastern shore? Sleeping in a field-expedient shelter? Building a bridge across a stream? Bushwacking? Orienteering? Fishing? Sledding? There are really far too many things than could ever be experienced in 24 days and nights a year.

[perdidochas]

I agree I wouldn't emphasize Merit Badge work on campouts (or at Troop Meetings for that matter) for the reasons listed. I like to see my Scouts engaged with each other' date=' and spending time on work the Patrol has to get done rather than individuals all doing their own thing.[/quote']

 

Some merit badge work can ONLY be done on campouts--camping, cooking MBs for instance.

[qwazse]

Thank you all so much I will continue to read and research. It seems like every camp out I went on the boys had no focus and just did spur of the moment stuff with the boys while out there. i want them to look forward to going...

 

There's a balance. Depends on the maturity of the boys. For example, we left a pretty open schedule this weekend in case of snow vs. clear nights for star-gazing, etc ... But I made it clear that I would be bringing maps of our community in which they were to plan and make at least one significant hike. They did. (Meanwhile SM and I hiked to a coffee shop and touched based via cell-phone when they asked for guidance on our way back.)

 

Meanwhile one scout realized we were camping next to a girl friend's property, called her, and she asked if they could visit her chicken operation. I told them to clear it with her parents, invite the rest of the patrol, and be sure to invite them back for dinner (which they declined, but it's the thought that counts).

[Torchwood]

Camping trips are an opportunity to work on t-2-1 skills and get some advancement done that way- including that EDGE skill requirement. They can be an opportunity to work on Camping and Cooking Merit Badges, even Wilderness Survival, Pioneering, etc. But that should be with some coordination with the MBC- even asking him/her to attend the trip. Other than that, camping trips should also be about the boys being together away from home, school, siblings, parents, electronics, etc and just being allowed to be boys- probably the one thing that is sorely lacking in today's busy and distracted world.

[SMMatthew]

Here's a somewhat related story:

 

A few weeks ago I had a Scoutmaster Conference with a Scout going for his Life rank. In the conference, I asked him about the merit badges he earned for Life. I asked what was the "hardest" merit badge he earned and which was the "easiest."

 

The Scout, without even stopping to think said the easiest badge he earned was Camping. I was a little taken back by this. Not only is Camping a fairly involved MB with many requirements and is a badge that is Eagle-required, but I was his councilor for it! I asked him why he thought it was so "easy" and he told me "well, because we only had to meet twice for like half-an-hour each time. We just talked about stuff and I had to write like one or two things down and then I got the badge signed off. It took me like an hour total."

 

I laughed. "It didn't take you an hour to earn the badge," I said. "It took you 3+ years of camping, and teaching skills at troop meetings and on campouts, and being active in the troop to earn the badge. All we did in those two meetings was sit down to review and check-off what you had already done, demonstrated and learned. That took you years, not a few minutes, to do!"

 

As Baden-Powell stated: “Advancement is like a suntan; something you get naturally whilst having fun in the outdoors.â€Â