Politically Incorrect Idea to Reduce Radical Islamict Recruiting

[Rick_in_CA]

To return to the "right wing doesn't like facts" idea, lets look at one of those "facts".

 

"Many cities in Europe, including Birmingham England, have become Muslim no-go zones where non-Muslims cannot go and Sharia law is enforced."

 

So versions of this "fact" have been bouncing around the right-wing paranoia sphere ever since 9/11. However, it got a big move into the main-stream when FOX News hosted Steve Emerson recently. Since then several other pundits commentators (such as FOX News' Noland Peterson) added to the story.

 

Of course, it turns out all to be false. There was no evidence to begin with, Birmingham is not "all Muslim", France has not designated no-go zones where sovereignty has been suspended. FOX News had to issue an apology. Even Emerson retracted his statements about Birmingham. So it's debunked, and the "fact" can die a quite death? Of course not.

 

It looks like Boby Jindal wants to be President and has to appeal to the Republican base, so no-go zones have to be real for him. To bad about that reality thing.

 

Things were getting quiet around here.

[CalicoPenn]

JoeBob - I think the women learned that the only male virgins they're likely to encounter in paradise were 30 year old nerds that lived in their parent's basement playing video games while watching My Little Pony. Since women are, in a general sort of way, smarter than us men, they likely petitioned Shaykh 'Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen to declare that women will not be saddled with 72 virgin nerds. (not that there is anything wrong with being a nerd).

[TAHAWK]

I have no personal knowledge about so-called "no go" zones - anywhere. How do we know they do not exist? Because politicians deny they exist?

 

It's not just the right that refers to no go zones, and they may exist.

 

Wicki: "The Washington Post reported that CNN reported about "No-go zones" on January 9, 2015 (CNN host Chris Cuomo); on "751 ‘no-go zones’ in France" on the same date on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360° show, with Cooper saying "We’ve seen that in Sweden, obviously in England, here in France and as one of the guests earlier was talking about, there are kind of ‘no-go zones’ where police don’t even really go into and again it does cut both ways." CNN continued reporting on no-go zones on January 10.^[10] CNN was criticized for these comments.^[11] CNN's Anderson Cooper later apologised on screen for having critiziced others while it itself numerous times reported about no-go zones in Europe.^[12][13]"

 

 

CNN: "If you look at Sweden there are 55 ‘no-go zones’ there. You know, firefighters or ambulance drivers go in there and they’re attacked. Their vehicles are lit on fire, their tires are slashed, and the Europeans have not pushed back against this."

 

New York Times, December 12, 2005: "Branded by France's police intelligence agency as one of the country's 150 "no go zones," where police officers should enter only with major reinforcements, La Courneuve was caught up in the violence in which rioters torched cars, trashed businesses and ambushed the police."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/in...anted=all&_r=0

 

New republic, Time, and AP have also reported on "no go zones" in Europe.

 

Snopes makes a fine distinction, sans différence:

 

"[some] confound the idea in France of a special economic zone with the problem of the cités, that is, regions in the urban periphery of French cities, that are populated by an underclass consisting largely of immigrants from Muslim countries. Comparable to the "projects" in the United States or "housing estates" in Great Britain, the relationship between the inhabitants of the cités and the police is often adversarial. For example, in a form of protest that has become a sort of annual tradition, 940 cars were set on fire this past New Year's Eve, primarily in the vicinity of the cités. Most French people would consider that police authority is, at best, tenuous in the cités and the police exercise extreme caution performing their duties there. As police would in the US in housing projects, or, these days, in Ferguson, Missouri.

 

French law applies everywhere in France, including the cités, whatever practical obstacles may exist to its application."][emphasis added]

 

So, if we do not count areas where "practical obstacles" prevent the application of national law, there are no "no go zones." OK Got it.

[packsaddle]

So...I can't visit my relatives in Birmingham? Bummer. I wonder when they converted.....

[SSScout]

And the movie Interstellar is a pre-cumentary (there, I invented a word. "a documentation of historic fact before it happens.").

[TAHAWK]

So...I can't visit my relatives in Birmingham? Bummer. I wonder when they converted.....

 

I dunno.

 

Tell me about Birmingham? Is it in the "Midlands"?

 

Who is this "Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of the Constabulary" who said in January, 2014: "There are some communities born under other skies who will not involve the police at all. I am reluctant to name the communities in question, but there are communities from other cultures who would prefer to police themselves.

 

 

There are cities in the Midlands where the police never go because they are never called. They never hear of any trouble because the community deals with that on its own.

 

It’s not that the police are afraid to go into these areas or don’t want to go into those areas,’ he said. ‘But if the police don’t get calls for help then, of course, they won’t know what’s going on.

It could be anything. [Honour killings] are the most extreme case."

 

 

I don't even know what a Chief Inspector of the Constabulary is, but he is unlikely to be an American politician or to work for Fox.

 

 

This story was carried, with minor variation by the Times, Express, Daily Mail, Mirror and Telegraph in February, 2012. Not to mention the Huffington Post. (Will they now apologize?)

 

"British cities have lawless ‘no-go areas’ comparable with the most dangerous parts of Brazil, Mexico and the U.S., according to a United Nations drugs chief.

 

Professor Hamid Ghodse claimed Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester are on a par with the drug and murder capitals of the world.

 

[He said: " "Examples are in Brazil, Mexico, in the United States, in the UK, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, and therefore it is no good to have only law enforcement, which always shows it does not succeed." ]

 

The president of the International Narcotics Control Board said the police had lost control of parts of these cities, and drugs gangs had taken over."

 

 

I know that this UN official was Muslim and is dead now, but he too was probably not a Fox employee.

 

[Scouter99]

Now, now, TAHAWK, Rick in California state of mind says it's so, and liberals have the corner on reality, so you can take your HuffPost, NYT, The New Republic, and TIME, and put them down the chute where liberals put history that doesn't match this week's facts like a good MiniTru employee.

It was true until Fox said it, now it's not true. It's simple, TAHAWK. Get on board the fact train.

[TAHAWK]

Now, now, TAHAWK, Rick in California state of mind says it's so, and liberals have the corner on reality, so you can take your HuffPost, NYT, The New Republic, and TIME, and put them down the chute where liberals put history that doesn't match this week's facts like a good MiniTru employee.

It was true until Fox said it, now it's not true. It's simple, TAHAWK. Get on board the fact train.

 

 

Brother, if you think that any one side, politically speaking, has a monopoly on spin, selective editing, and outright invention, stay off Google or you'll be stunned. Anyone who thinks he's better than the common run of humanity has no problem casting loose the ties of objective reality in service of "the greater truth." Both sides, for example, speak of "cutting spending" when the reality, at best, is a reduction in the rate of increase in spending.

 

 

[Rick_in_CA]

Thank you all, you just won me a nice bet.

 

So, the statement was that there were Muslim no-go zones where non-Muslims cannot go, and where Sharia law applies. That has been debunked. Are there high crime areas where police go carefully? Sure, we have them here. Do some of those areas in France have a lot of Muslim immigrants? Yes.

 

But that is not the same as France having "officially designated" zones where "non-Muslim French citizens are forbidden from entering", where "Sharia law rules." Nor are these areas of London where "there are actual religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to religious Muslim attire".

 

So TAHAWK, are you saying that these zones do exist? That there are officially designated Muslim only areas where non Muslims are forbidden to enter, and Sharia law applies? Because that is the "fact" I am talking about, and it has been debunked. Not that France and the UK have the equivalent of our housing projects (with many of the same associated problems).

 

It's part of the "be afraid of Muslims" narrative that many (not all) on the right are now pushing, and that Bobby Jindal is pandering too. Is that what you are defending?

 

By the way, I'm enjoying this discussion! I hope you guys are enjoying it too.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Of course, when idiots DO try to "enforce" their religion, they get sent to prison:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/06/muslim-vigilantes-jailed-sharia-law-attacks-london

[packsaddle]

Liverpool...Yeah, what's up with that one? I mean just think about the name! Eeeww, eeww!

[TAHAWK]

Thank you all, you just won me a nice bet.

 

So, the statement was that there were Muslim no-go zones where non-Muslims cannot go, and where Sharia law applies. That has been debunked. Are there high crime areas where police go carefully? Sure, we have them here. Do some of those areas in France have a lot of Muslim immigrants? Yes.

 

But that is not the same as France having "officially designated" zones where "non-Muslim French citizens are forbidden from entering", where "Sharia law rules." Nor are these areas of London where "there are actual religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to religious Muslim attire".

 

So TAHAWK, are you saying that these zones do exist? That there are officially designated Muslim only areas where non Muslims are forbidden to enter, and Sharia law applies? Because that is the "fact" I am talking about, and it has been debunked. Not that France and the UK have the equivalent of our housing projects (with many of the same associated problems).

 

It's part of the "be afraid of Muslims" narrative that many (not all) on the right are now pushing, and that Bobby Jindal is pandering too. Is that what you are defending?

 

By the way, I'm enjoying this discussion! I hope you guys are enjoying it too.

 

Unlike the experts here, I have no personal knowledge, and have said so. I have simply quoted various persons speaking as if they knew from government, the UN, and the the liberal media.

 

If you define "no go" in a given way, I am sure there are no such places.

 

Further, I am relatively sure that, as with many human affairs, areas with no effective policing are not the result of anything as simple as religion or ethnicity. However "We have no 'no go zones' just zones where practical problems prevent policing" is not much of an answer for the people who find themselves in such places, most typically the inhabitants.

[JoeBob]

Rick:

 

First, you really should try reading the articles you link. FoxNews apologized for saying that 'no-go zone' was an official designation. As TAHAWK has so thoroughly pointed out from multiple sources (chief among them CNN - your quoted source), unofficial and so-called no-go zones are quite prevalent.

 

Second, when you look for a credible source to criticize a news outlet, relying on information from a competitor who is loosing their lunch money to FoxNews is laughable.

 

The saddest part is that you actually think that you are winning.

[packsaddle]

I can take any of you to two no-go zones that I know of within a 10 to 15-mile radius of this computer. At least they are 'no-go' at night. Back in the early 70s they were fairly open about it too...had a billboard at the edge of town that read, "N****r, don't let the sun set on you in ______".

To this day I have black friends who 'know' to avoid those places after dark. Our troop went through another place on an outing once and when we stopped to ask directions, our black SM wouldn't even get out of the car.

So the idea of 'no-go' places has a long well-established tradition in this country.

[Stosh]

No-go zones in America? They're all over the place in every city. We may not talk about them, but we all know they're there.

 

Stosh