Politically Incorrect Idea to Reduce Radical Islamict Recruiting

[RememberSchiff]

Don't like my example? Okay, but I think you understand the point I was making.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well that didn't take long:

[h=1]Duke University Cancels Plans For Muslim Call To Prayer[/h] http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/01/15/muslim-prayer-duke

 

Apparently some wealthy donors to Duke's endowment failed to tolerate the double standard.

 

How is it a "double standard"?

 

http://chapel.duke.edu/worship/music/carillon

In the tower of Duke Chapel is a 50-bell carillon, played on weekdays at 5:00 p.m. and before and after Sunday worship services and special events.

...

 

An entire Jewish Studies program:

http://jewishstudies.duke.edu

 

So what's the "double standard"?

 

[Rick_in_CA]

Well that didn't take long:

Duke University Cancels Plans For Muslim Call To Prayer

 

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/01/1...im-prayer-duke

 

Apparently some wealthy donors to Duke's endowment failed to tolerate the double standard.

 

What double standard? This private university was offering a call to prayer for it's some 700 Muslim students once a week (and they aren't canceling it, just moving it out of the bell tower). The Duke Chapel is an active Christian church that offers multiple Christian services every week, and there is Muslim prayer service in the basement every Friday. Where is the double standard? That there is any Muslim prayer at all on campus (that appears to be Franklin Graham's point)???

[TAHAWK]

But, as it turned out, there is a double standard. One for favored religions and another for a less-favored religion.

 

As for Franklin Graham, we could establish a Chair of Demagoguery in his name.

[JoeBob]

I'm disappointed. So many ostriches..

 

Simple questions:

1- Which religions are expanding? Shrinking?

2- What state sponsored religion kills you if you drop out?

3 - What state sponsored religion requires women to cover themselves?

4 - What state sponsored religion punishes women with death if they are raped?

5 - What state sponsored religion doesn't allow women to attend school?

6 - Stones gays?

7 - Advocates conversion, slavery or death for all humans that are not members?

8 - In recent history, what state sponsored religion has exterminated another religion in that state?

9 - What religion promises heaven if you die killing an infidel?

10 - What state religion administers 1000 lashes if you criticize their clerics?

 

Solving this is going to be a three step process:

3 - Moderate Muslims are going to have to control radical Muslims. Moderates have a better shot at peacefully convincing radicals to back off. Christians can't win an argument with radicals who are highly motivated to kill us.

2 - But first Christianity has to convince Islamic moderates that radicalism will eventually be resisted by stronger methods than complaining. So far Islam is doing just great with the help of Christian cheek-turning.

1 - But even before that, non-Islamic people (Atheists too, Merlyn) are going to have to be convinced that Islam is coming.

 

Is beheading 'nothing personal' if it's on YouTube?

​

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Speaking of ostriches, what "double standard" were you referring to, JoeBob?

 

[packsaddle]

The idea of a 'double standard' implies two alternatives in an unequal relationship. I think more accurately in this case, the problem is that there is no clear standard at all. Instead we have purely arbitrary and perhaps thoughtless (does the term 'knee-jerk' come to mind?) decisions. From the link: "However, it was clear that what was conceived as an effort to unify was not having the intended effect."

I'm not sure about the Duke bell tower but that quote sure rang my DUH! bell. The idea that an institution can do ANYTHING regarding a single religious group without criticism from others....would make me question the bloated salaries of people who think this stuff up - if I didn't already question those.

The Peter Principle is bad enough already. Do we have to give them obscenely large salaries as well?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Packsaddle, Duke U. does WAY more for Christians and Jews (see my earlier post). Allowing Muslims to announce their services would be reducing the existing double standard, and cancelling it only increases it.

[TAHAWK]

I'm disappointed. So many ostriches..

 

Simple questions:

1- Which religions are expanding? Shrinking?

2- What state sponsored religion kills you if you drop out?

3 - What state sponsored religion requires women to cover themselves?

4 - What state sponsored religion punishes women with death if they are raped?

5 - What state sponsored religion doesn't allow women to attend school?

6 - Stones gays?

7 - Advocates conversion, slavery or death for all humans that are not members?

8 - In recent history, what state sponsored religion has exterminated another religion in that state?

9 - What religion promises heaven if you die killing an infidel?

10 - What state religion administers 1000 lashes if you criticize their clerics?

 

Solving this is going to be a three step process:

3 - Moderate Muslims are going to have to control radical Muslims. Moderates have a better shot at peacefully convincing radicals to back off. Christians can't win an argument with radicals who are highly motivated to kill us.

2 - But first Christianity has to convince Islamic moderates that radicalism will eventually be resisted by stronger methods than complaining. So far Islam is doing just great with the help of Christian cheek-turning.

1 - But even before that, non-Islamic people (Atheists too, Merlyn) are going to have to be convinced that Islam is coming.

 

Is beheading 'nothing personal' if it's on YouTube?

​

 

 

Brother, you are asking not about religions but about governments.

 

The nation with the largest number of Muslim citizens is Indonesia. Indonesia does officially recognize Islam - and five other religions: Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Confucianism. Nevertheless, many other unofficial religions carry on. The percentage of Christians has increased in Indonesia since 1985. The Governor of Indonesia's largest city and capital is a Christian, but he is not the first Christian to hold the position in independent Indonesia.

 

These are not simple issues and simple "answers" are largely unhelpful.

 

"Islam is coming": Your prediction of an Islamic armageddon closely tracks the opposite prediction that drives the fanatics of Islam to rally the Faithful against the "Crusaders." Viewing the World as a zero-sum game where someone must win and the "other" must lose pretty much ordains violence.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Some other tidbits about Indonesia -- it has the largest WOSM Scouting organization in the world, because it's part of the government school system and all students join. It's also illegal to be an atheist in Indonesia (as shown by Alexander Aan). So I guess WOSM is OK with such a lack of religious freedom.

[TAHAWK]

Local coverage of Ann case.

 

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/06/18/commentary-is-there-room-atheists-indonesia.html

[Scouter99]

We are living in a world where reality does have a "liberal bias"' date=' but only because so much of the right wing is living in a bubble where any fact that doesn't match their world view is simply dismissed. [/quote']

Yeah, I really hate all those right wing anti-vaccination nutbags, or those conservative anti-science homeopathic medicine whackjobs. And what about those conservative feminists who keep saying 20% of women are raped even though the liberal Bureau of Justice Statistics says it's .06%--or even worse, the conservative feminists who say facts don't matter at all. Or you know what really gripes me are those conservative gender studies folks who say gender roles are fluid social constructs then turn around and say people who don't conform to them need to change their physical sex characteristics.

 

It's clear that leftism is the paradise of fact.

[SSScout]

The answer to all this is "it depends".

 

In our area ( and I can't really find all the weblinks immediately) we have a Quaker meeting that rents space to a fledgling Hebrew congregation, a synagogue the rents space to a small Baptist congregation, a new Sikh temple that opened about 2 months ago, a road that has chock-a-block to each other a evangelical Christian church, a Mosque, an auction house, and a LARGE independent denomination church. Our Interfaith Ministerium is very active and includes (at least on paper) just about every house of worship within a 5 mile radius.

 

I woke up this morning and watched "Religion and Ethics Newsweekly " on PBS before going off to Meeting. One story was about a Catholic Deacon in Missouri who was organizing a Silent Retreat for police officers and had about 35 already signed up to participate. Another was about Jaipur Foot, an Indian organization that helps provide prosthesis for amputees. The leader is a Jain, but the facility is decorated with pictures of Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jain, Jewish and Buddhist iconic pictures.

 

And after the R&ENW, I watched a documentary about the Tabor City, NC newspaper editor, Horace Carter and his editorial policy concerning the Ku Klux Klan. " The Editor and the Dragon" will make you sad, glad, scared, and spellbound in turn.

 

"It all depends". Mostly on the courage of the people involved to stand up and point at the truth of a matter.

[packsaddle]

I was still a toddler when Horace Carter took on the Klan but I learned about it during the early '60s, actually that and a lot more. I knew about Klan activities where I was growing up a couple hundred miles west of there. The last Klan rally I saw personally was in the early '70s in the upstate of SC - the robed figures (cowards) were stopping traffic on the highway "...looking for n*****". I can tell you some rough stories about those days. I suspect there were more rallys held in other places even later in the Carolinas. I knew persons my age who claimed to be Klan members. I was told they did things that I'm glad I didn't witness personally, both here and in Vietnam. Like I said, rough stories.

 

I have long marveled at how persons who had almost no interaction with certain other groups of people could cultivate such intense hatred of those groups. It seems to be human 'nature' for some of us and sadly, I have never understood it.

And while I can express confidence that things have improved since those times, that latent tendency to hate, prejudge, and exclude is still here with us. The Klan was essentially a home-grown terrorist organization. I suspect we could name others as well if we wanted but what I saw and heard back then wasn't too far off from what seems to be done these days (and perhaps in the past as well) in the name of religion. Maybe in time these human failings will fall by the wayside but I suspect, not in my lifetime. Maybe for my grandchildren...if I help teach them well. Burke's words haunt me, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". Of course these days 'What' to do is the hard question. Not, I think, a particularly optimistic view of the future.

[skeptic]

" The Klan was essentially a home-grown terrorist organization. I suspect we could name others as well if we wanted "

 

I consider gangs that prey on neighborhoods as home grown terrorists; and I do not understand why we do not respond to them the same way we do to those from the outside.