Adult registration

[Glenn]

When are adults required to register with BSA? We have various parents that attend the committee meetings. To be considered a committee member, do they need to be registered?

 

Also, our new secretary and treasurer are not registered. Is this OK also?

 

What are the benefits to the adult to register?

 

Thanks in advance.

[acco40]

To be a Scouter (adult, post 18 member of the BSA) one has to fillout an application, pay a fee and be approved by the BSA which will conduct a background check. To be an adult member of a unit, in addition to the above, the Charter Organization of the unit (Troop, Pack, Crew, Ship, etc.) needs to approve the individual for the specific unit position (committee member, committee chair, scoutmaster, assistant scoutmaster, etc.). If one is not registered with the BSA and approved by the CO, one is not a committee member.

 

What are the benefits? None to too numerous to mention depending on your point of view. IMO, the benefits are endless.

[Twocubdad]

Our pack requires registration for den leaders and others with direct contact with the boys. For committee members in purely administrative positions, it's optional. I think it's going to be more of an issue next year when our council will require all registered leaders to be trained.

[KoreaScouter]

All activities should be open to all parents, just like the "Information for Parents" part of the youth registration form says. That would open the door to parents attending committee meetings.

 

I don't think it's necessary, or even desirable, for a unit to insist on registration of every parent who's doing a smidgen more than drop-off/pick-up. For one thing, it artificially inflates the roster of adult leaders, because most will not be actively involved. It places a greater training burden on the committee, too. Also, with proper YP practices in place, you shouldn't have to register everybody just to keep the lads safe.

 

As far as benefits to registration, there is one huge one, and that is that by signing the application, the adult is promising to act according to the Scout Oath and Law. Without registration, you may hope for it, but you have no real leverage.

 

KS

[acco40]

I don't want to be combative but I think Twocub and Korea have it backwards. One MUST be a registered Scouter (redundant term?) to be a committee member. However, one does not have to be a committee member to participate with the unit. Yes, parents may help out and even carry out assigned tasks, but that does not make them committee members. Similarly, a non-registered youth may attend a troop meeting and even an outing but that does not make him a Scout.

[eisely]

To be a fully functional member of the committee one must register. Ordinarily committee actions are not contentious and committees acty by consensus. However, the possibility of having to deal with difficult, even divisive, issues cannot be ignored. If a formal vote is ever required, then only registered members of the committee should be allowed to vote. There is nothing wrong with broadening the base of registered adults. Giving volunteers even a modicum of status may encourage them to become more involved.

 

Benefits of registration: I can think of two concrete benefits. You get the magazine. Also (so I am told), if something bad happens and there is a claim, the liability coverage of the local council becomes primary coverage only for registered adults. This second item may or may not be true, and may vary across councils.

 

For any activity requiring a tour permit, at least one of the adult leaders named on the tour permit must be 21 years old, and at least one must be registered.

[Glenn]

Thanks everyone for their input. I was not aware that you must be registered to be considered a full committee member. We always include any parent who drops in in our discussions and motions.

 

The last time we had a contentious vote/decision, we had called a special committee meeting and if I remember correctly, only registered Scouters were there.

 

We have always asked the parents that attend the outings to be registered. And highly suggested SM fundamental training. But this is not enforced in our troop.

 

Thanks again.

[Bob White]

Glenn,

 

The only rule is you must have a registered Charter Organization Representative, Committee Chair, 2 Committee members, and Scoutmaster.

 

From that point on there is great flexibility within the unit.

 

Anyone who is going to wear the uniform must be registered. I highly recommend 2 registered Assistant scoutmasters (especially if you intend to be a Quality Unit).

 

I also recommend that anyone required to follow the policies of the BSA in order to perform their job needs to be registered (treasures, advancement, unit trainer, fundraising, etc.).

 

I don't think it is needed to register anyone who ever goes camping. But I would register anyone I selected and recruited to perform a specific role in the troop.

 

When it comes to decision making don't worry about who is registered and who isn't. Do what the Charter Org. Rep. and the Committee Chair want to do. They are the final say in all matters unless controlled by BSA policies.

 

 

[dsteele]

Bob White is correct. There are registration minimums to charter or re-charter a troop.

 

Going back to Glenn's questions in the original post:

 

Registration with the BSA is required for membership in the BSA. If an adult wants to count themselves as a member of the Boy Scouts of America, they must fill out the application, secure proper signatures for approval, and since April 1, 2003, must undergo a criminal background check.

 

To be considered a committee member, they must register with the BSA.

 

The new secretary and treasurer are not registered in Glenn's post. Is this a problem? On one level, no. Bob White is correct that the charter can go through with 2 registered committee members (troop position such as treasurer does not need to be indicated.) However, would you want to hand the books and finances of the troop over to someone who was not willing to become a member of the Boy Scouts of America? That question assumes that the individual was asked to become a member of the BSA and refused -- if they haven't been asked, someone should ask them. I'm sure they'll enjoy the magazine and being a member of the BSA. If they're not registered with the BSA, they're more like a parent-book-keeper for the unit and not a treasurer. Same goes for the secretary. If they're willign to do the job on a regular basis, why not give them the rights and priviledges of membership in the BSA?

 

I agree with the others who point out that the parent who helps out here and there does not need to register. My personal measuring stick is how the individual would identify himself/herself. Are they, in public circles (potentially) saying, "I'm the treasurer for Pack XXX?" If so, they should be registered. If they say, "My son is a Cub Scout in Pack XXX," then by all means encourage them to register.

 

Don't worry about inflating your adult numbers, regardless of who (the unit or the individual) pays their registration fee. The number of registered adults (other than meeting charter minimums) is only loosely counted by the BSA as a guage to program health and interpretations vary. It is not a measure by which program effectiveness is determined.

 

WOW! I just noticed the time. I've got to get to bed now. Late meeting = late night, I guess.

 

Dave

[Twocubdad]

Questions for you, Dave. Does BSA membership provide any insurance or protection from the financial mis-deeds of the leaders? Or is that strictly up to the unit and CO?

 

I understand criminal theft is one thing, but how about this as a hypothetical: Our unit is selling coupon books from a local car wash. We've gone through all the proper approvals for the unit fundraiser. Unfortunately I loose an entire case of the books with a value of several thousand dollars. The car wash sues me, the unit and the CO for the money. Does my BSA registration provide any insurance for the loss or legal counsel?

 

Let's forget for the moment any nuances of how unit fundraisers should work or the dangers of non-council-sanctioned fundraisers. I'm more interested in whether or not BSA membership provides any sort of bonding for it's members.

 

(Sorry about the earlier typos. Spell check can be a dangerous thing.)(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[KoreaScouter]

Glenn originally asked two questions. The first one, regarding when adults have to be registered, was asked in the context of parents attending committee meetings, then expanded in a later post to say that parents in attendance participated in discussions and motions.

 

I know many unit committees, including those I've been associated with, follow a parliamentary "Robert's Rules of Order" model of sorts, in which committee members vote on things, with a majority rule. I've been back and forth through the Troop Committee Guidebook, and can't find anything that mandates or even encourages this practice. All I see is that the committee chairman is in charge, and can direct the committee members as he sees fit. Unless I missed something, voting isn't required as far as BSA is concerned.

 

If that's the case, any parent at a committee meeting can participate without being registered. I've never understood the "you're not registered, so you have to be quiet at the meetings" mentality.

 

DS, I've used the same rationale to get people registered; you know, "...you're at every meeting/outing anyway. Why not register and make it official?"

 

KS

[Twocubdad]

I've been asked to post this question by a regular forum member who has previously identified their unit, but wishes to ask this question anonymously:

 

"Is it necessary to have one person registered just to be treasurer? Or, if the committee chairman were willing to keep the books, have another registered adult member sign checks in addition to himself, and then bring copies of the bank statements and register to each monthly meeting, would that provide enough accountability? The reason this is asked is that the treasurer was not providing any records at all, and after several attempts to get information, the committee chairman with backing of the other leaders in the pack felt it necessary to start fresh with the accounting (new account, new signers, but not a new treasurer as treasurer only)."

 

 

 

[eisely]

As far as I can tell, I agree with the factual accuracy of everything that has been posted so far.

 

BW makes an interesting distinction arguing for registering adult committee members above and beyond the minimum. As I understand his point, if a committee member is going to perform a specific function as envisioned in the BSA "school solution" to the division of labor within the committee, then it is definitely a good idea that that person be registered.

 

Korea Scouter also makes a point that has been made earlier about the non-requirement to utilize Robert's Rules of Order for the conduct of meetings. I have consistently commented that most committees operate by consensus. Certainly in the committees in which I participated there was no distinction between registered and non-registered adults. Everybody was afforded a chance to speak their piece.

 

Having said all that, I think committees should be prepared to revert to more formal procedures when a difficult issue arises, such as the removal of a volunteer. Fortunately these situations do not arise very often, but given the seriousness of some issues, I think a formal process should be observed in such situations.

[NeilLup]

This thread goes in an interesting direction but to me, it is somewhat backwards.

 

Why would you NOT want to have adults registered as leaders?

 

Here are some of the reasons I have heard that an individual doesn't want to register. For me, none of these are particularly good reason.

 

1) They don't want to spend the $10. Come on now! If it's that big a thing, I am sure the unit can help fund it. I know that some units pay the registration fees for all adults but, quite frankly, if that becomes a problem for the unit, let the adults pay. Personally, I think having the adults pay is a good idea.

2) They don't want to fill out the form. Hmmm. What information on the form don't they want to give which they wouldn't let the unit have anyway? There are some persons who don't want to fill out the form because they don't want the screening involved. Likely no problem at all but that's precisely why the screening is done. I know that some people are reluctant to give their social security number but, again, if a person is going to be around kids, handle money, etc., bypassing the national screening system is a POOR idea.

3) They don't want to commit to spending that much time with the unit. Fair enough but the original post spoke about the secretary and treasurer not being registered. Come on, now.

4) The unit or the sponsor limit the number of people registered to control who runs the unit. Well, I guess this is one way to be. It's not my way and it's a great way to drive off potential help.

 

Are there other reasons? I would like to learn them.

 

As far as benefits to being registered:

1) The safety and security of passing the National screening. If I'm a parent, I like the idea that the leaders have been screened.

2) Scouting magazine

3) Formally being part of the organization

4) Receiving information from the local council

5) A clearer situation concerning being covered by BSA liability insurance and unit accident insurance. I understand that a parent attending an event on a one time basis is likely covered. However, if someone was considered to be the "secretary" of the committee and wasn't registered, then the insurance company might have a very convenient excuse to try to deny coverage. Rather than leave that opening, why not be registered. (Eisley, I don't believe that registration status changes whether BSA insurance is primary or secondary but I could be wrong.)

 

Am I missing something? Why is there even a debate?

[dsteele]

Twocubdad can usually be counted on to ask interesting and tough questions. I like them because they make me think . . . but I don't know the answer to this one:

 

"I understand criminal theft is one thing, but how about this as a hypothetical: Our unit is selling coupon books from a local car wash. We've gone through all the proper approvals for the unit fundraiser. Unfortunately I loose an entire case of the books with a value of several thousand dollars. The car wash sues me, the unit and the CO for the money. Does my BSA registration provide any insurance for the loss or legal counsel? "

 

I don't know and have no way to answer. In the event something like that happens, my best advice is to first contact your insurance agent, attorney, and your Scout Executive or designee -- and not necessisarily in that order.

 

Give them a chance to make some phone calls of their own after you ask your questions -- they'll have to check with the experts in the BSA.

 

I can give you a of real life example I've seen in this area -- although different than the example twocubdad gave, it does have to do with insurance:

 

A unit leader took some popcorn for a show and sell, loaded it in his van and went to the sale. On the way, his van was rear-ended and much of the popcorn was destroyed. His auto insurance paid the retail price of the popcorn. He paid the council cost and kept the unit portion. I don't know who paid his deductible. However, no law suits by anyone were filed in the case. BSA insurance had nothing to do with it -- it was outside the realm.

 

The answer to the question also depends on what council you're involved with. The normal registration fee includes secondary liability insurance for registered leaders. Secondary insurance kicks in when your homeowners general liability wears out (or auto as the case may be) and provides coverage after that. Liability insurance is generally pretty inexpensive compared to medical because it has to do with law suits rather than medical expenses.

 

Councils, at their option, may provide (for an additional fee) primary liability insurance for leaders which kicks in before any insurance they may have and generally covers more dollars than secondary.

 

I have no way of knowing which level your council provides. They have to pay for it one way or another -- whether they charge you or take it out of FOS or find a sponsor. The only way to find out which you have is to call your local council and ask.

 

DS