Eagle Rank, SM Conference and Drug Use

[pointingtheway]

looking for some advice- have several boys caught using/dealing cannabis, including one arrest, in the community and admitted (by them) at scout activities. After investigation by council, was given short 3 month suspensions and allowed to return. This in addition to parents/leaders not forthright in there knowledge of activities and attempt to keep it hidden, and given the same treatment but shorter susspensions. Upon reinstatement, part of the agreement was leadership shuffling. I was asked and agreed to change from ASM to SM since current SM involved in "problem". I agreed. Several boys were in process of finishing their Eagle projects during this and allowed to continue even during suspension.

 

My problem: how do I handle the SM conference? We know we are told we cannot "fail" them. But since reinstatement, most have not attended meetings regularly or shown leadership (like at Webelos nights/recruitment outings), etc. All parents & scouts (except one set) involved did and continue to have a "flippant" attitude about the situation. More time is not an option since they will all age out by August of this year. I also have other parents in the troop tell me that they don't think the boys should be Eagle with history of this. One even went as far as saying, if they are given ok to Eagle, he wont encourage his "Life" scout to since it will diminish the meaning. Remember, this is just one scout, this is at least 4. (I won't say exactly) that I will have to deal with within the year.

 

This has been bugging me since I was asked to take over. How do I honor the Laws and Oath the we have the boys learn and follow, as well as honor them myself when dealing with this situation?

[KenDavis500]

My biggest question for the Scouts would be have they learned from the experience? Everyone makes mistakes. The magnitude of each mistake varies but hopefully a Scout will learn from their mistake and become a better person because of it.

 

 

[SSScout]

Welcome to the forums. You will at least have many sympathetic ears here around the virtual crackerbarrel. Suggestions from my side of the campfire.....

 

Many SMminutes for the Troop to come , about what's important. Leaning on artificial stuff (drugs, weed, beer, tobacco, whiskey, ) to have a "good time"? This is necessary? Breaking or supporting laws. Playing fair. Getting high on life (mountain climbing? White Water canoeing? football? ), being "Trustworthy" , What's it mean to be "a man"? Where do you want your money to go? To a Columbian drug lord? a Homeless shelter? Your Mustang GT? Your IRA? Consequences of actions? Taking responsibility for your actions? Lots of ideas come to mind.

 

As to the SMconference, I suspect you will have to have some regular , scheduled ones with these boys, either singularly or together. They do not have to "pass" them, only have the conferences, letting them know they have some catching up to do , to prove their worthiness of Eagle. Breaking the law does not, to my mind, show a "following of the Scout Promise and Law in the Scout's life" . You , as their Scoutmaster, are disappointed in them, and they need to know that in no uncertain terms. You should set them some expectations over the coming months, and keep up with them in tallying their progress in meeting these expectations. Do not let things slide. Do not "forget" anything. The "offishul" Eagle SMconference can wait. These conferences should be "private" (keep to YP standards!) but realize that the rest of the Troop community certainly know what has happened and is happening.

These things never happen in a vacuum. You may never know the "rest of the story", but you DO know your side of it. Your side may be the side they latch on to, if you are consistent and absolute in your standards and expectations. Or they may bail.....

 

You will np doubt get other ideas and reactions from my fellow forumites, but hat's what comes to my mind tonite.

 

Good luck and thanks for your "hour a week".

[scoutergipper]

I would have imposed a year long suspension following the Council suspension.

 

You don't say for sure, but have they all completed their 6 months of being active in the Troop (whatever your Troop's interpretation of "active" might be?).

 

I will say that none of these Scouts would receive a signature from me. The Scoutmaster Conference would be damn uncomfortable (assuming I was even willing to hold one, which is questionable) and afterward they would be free to try to get an Eagle Board of Review at which I would be happy to appear to give the Board a piece of my mind.

[qwazse]

Well, start by saying your SMC will happen after the scouts 3rd consecutive meeting and first outing attended. You need to see how these boys handle a weekend without their drug of choice. 'Nuff said. The boys need to convince you that they care about growing beyond this. And as the new SM, you really need to get to know these candidates. Leave open the possibility of meeting with a couple of boys at the same time, obviously with an ASM who would be willing to listen to the conversations and help you process what was said. Tune out the parents (have your CC run interference if you have to). These are 17 year-olds. By now they should be able to speak for themselves.

[Scouter99]

If they're not giving you the impression that they've had any kind of change of heart (they're not coming around and their parents are snots) then what's to worry about? Don't even give them one, and don't let anyone sign off their Scout Spirit requirement. Eagle is in one sense just one more rank, in another it is the award that signifies a Scout has achieved BSA's aims--these boys haven't, it's part of the requirements, don't sign them off.

 

When the council pulls rank and gives them Eagle anyway, tell the rest of the troop exactly what you think about it, calmly, and inform everyone that you won't have anything to do with the CoH and nor should they.

 

If you have time to work with the one whose parents seem to get it, then focus on him.

[Cambridgeskip]

It seems to me that the issue here is not the original incident (they were caught, they were disciplined etc) but the attitude afterwards.

 

By being flippant about it afterwards they have been disrespectful towards leaders. By not showing up for key events they have failed to show leadership. By not coming regularly they have not been active members. Given that I would have no problem not awarding them their eagle.

 

The other side of that coin though is that the threat of others as to what they might do if they are awarded it should NOT affect your decision at all. It's between you and the scouts.

[scoutldr]

In my state, "dealing" is a felony. If this had happened in my unit, there would be no discussion of having SM conferences or EBORs. THey would be removed from the unit roster. Your CO decides who can be members of your unit, not Council. If Council feels they should be reinstated and awarded Eagle, let them find another unit to register them in. Actions have consequences, and this is a life lesson for ALL the boys, not just the criminals.

[packsaddle]

First I'd like to welcome Pointingtheway to the forums, though under sad and regrettable circumstances. Hopefully you'll stick around to experience something more positive.

I think that I agree with KenDavis's question about what they learned from the experience. If some of them (adults and boys) are indeed flippant about it they may not have learned much and for those individuals, there is nothing shameful about leaving scouts with the rank of Life (especially compared to the shame of the crimes they're guilty of).

For the boy and parents who may have taken this to heart, in our area the community comes together to support that change of heart and we offer 'firm love' to them so help with a lifelong correction. For that boy I would offer the opportunity to earn Eagle....as long as he can demonstrate that he DID indeed learn a positive lesson from the experience (and, of course, completes all the rest of the rank requirements).

[T2Eagle]

Welcome to the forums, this probably one of the most fraught challenges you'll face.

 

First, decide where you stand and what you want to do regarding their membership in your unit and their progressing. There are plenty of scouters who would say "that's it, they're done" either meaning that they shouldn't be in the unit at all, or meaning they should not advance at all. If you feel that way speak up and say so now, it's not fair to them or to anyone else in the unit to not be Trustworthy about what your plans are. If you're going to do that then you need to get your CC and COR to either back you or override you, and then you need to let the Council and District know.

 

If you want the scouts to stay in your unit and advance, but you want, because of their transgressions, to set expectations for their behavior different from what you expect from others, then be honest and upfront about that also. And if that's what you want to do then you're going to need to find a way to do that within the guidelines we have for advancement. Look first at where they each are in terms of requirements completed. If you want them to show up at a specific number of meetings and outings in order to demonstrate their re-commitment to scouting then you're going to have to make that a requirement for either their PORs, their definition of Active, or their continuing membership in the troop. Again, if this is the path you want to take then get the CC, COR, and Council behind you.

 

As to the attitude of either the parents or scouts, it would be unrealistic to expect them to carry a penitent attitude for long, we humans just aren't built that way. You cannot know what's in someone's mind except through their behaviors. Determine what behaviors you believe will demonstrate their commitment to the Oath and Law and then hold them to it.

 

Again, I think the most important thing is to be very honest about what your plans are, everyone involved should know now what's going to happen. This isn't something you hold back on and then start fighting about just before an EBOR or 18th birthday.

 

 

[qwazse]

What T2E said, but I would say that youth membership includes an opportunity to advance. Don't want them advancing? Don't have them as members.

[SeattlePioneer]

Here in Washington State marijuana has been legalized by an initiative.

 

 

I'm expecting that liberal Scouters will soon be promoting a Marijuana Merit Badge....

[pointingtheway]

I am trying to make this vague enough to not give away exactly where I am. But it is much more complicated than you think.

The leadership switching that was agreed to include:: the SM was made CC and his son is the 1st one up to age out in 2 months. They are also one of the ambivalent ones. . This switch was approved by the CO. So I will not be getting much support from the CC. The troop was almost split in two and almost didn't survive. It was the only way to keep it going. The other problem is we don't even know for sure that they stopped their behavior. They did not have to provide any independent written proof that they completed the suspension requirements (including counseling, drug testing, community service. ). Extremely frustrating. I am not saying it should be public knowledge, but I don't think their and the parents word of completion should be good enough. (Originally, one of the parents were going to have a family member do the Professional counseling). needless to say, I am faced with taking their word for everything. Again, some of the ASM's kids were involved so I am going to have a hard time there. (did i mention, Scouters didn't even want to acknowledge what went on, just let the rest of the troop parents guess what was going on (the mind can wander beyond drugs as one parent said when he heard this.)

[packsaddle]

Take their word. They will live with their honesty or their lies for the rest of their lives. You're not in the enforcement business. If they have evidence of having completed the requirements, tell you they've learned their lesson, and pass the BOR, that will be that.

You really don't have many options, maybe none.

[qwazse]

Thanks for being persistent. And, your location isn't necessary.

 

Any strategies that get offered are not going to be easy ... that is if you want "easy" to mean free of emotional trauma. Frankly, this is one of those "only way out is through" issues and the most successful path is going to be full of near-term heartache with the hope that these boys and parents will be grateful to you in the long run.

 

Based on what you just said, you doubt that these boys have a scout's honor. Basically everyone's trust was betrayed, you were thrown into a new leadership position, and all the other parents are stuck asking things like "Can I trust my boy with these leaders?", "Is my boy's honor sullied by association?" and on the flip side a few parents may be asking (without telling you or anyone) "If my boy pulls a bone-head move like this, how will he be treated?"

 

Ignore the CC's relations. You have the right to demand that he have your back. And if that's too tough for him, have him bring in the COR. You have the right to ask the district to assign you their most seasoned UC ... if there is a someone who's been through this kind of firestorm. And, frankly, you have the right to admit that it's okay if the troop splits for the sake of everyone feeling safe. You're here for the boys and it looks like everyone is trying to keep it together for the boys, but sometimes it's a fella like you who has to call a spade a spade ... for the boys.

 

Two months may not seem like much, but it's enough to lay the groundwork to make some lasting changes in a boy's life. If he's willing. That's why I suggested throwing down the "3 consecutive meeting" criterion for the first SMC. It gives them a chance to prove they really want to make good, and gives you a chance to simmer down, and process a flood of ideas.