Question regarding Den Leader Training Award knots/devices

[Faith]

Hi all,

 

I had a question I hope someone can help me with. This is my third year as a den leader. Some other leaders in our pack recently told us about the knots we could earn (I knew of them but never attempted to get one) and encouraged us to apply for them. I'd previously read that in 2012, the individual rank knots were retired (one for Tiger, one for Wolf/Bear and one for Webelos.) I also read that if I applied for my two knots (one of Tiger year and one for Wolf year) I'd get two of the blue and gold knots. So after filling out my two applications, that's what I was left to assume I'd be receiving.

 

Today, I got a call telling me that was no longer the case. I'd earn the blue and gold knot for Tiger year, then a device for the Wolf year. My question is, is there any info online that is updated on this? I can't find any info on it nor a photo of what the device is, exactly. I'm purely curious, as all the sites I've visited say you get one knot per rank.

 

I hope that makes sense, its not a big deal but I'd still like to know

 

Thanks!

[JasonG172]

Correct the Tiger and Webelo knots are not longer in service HOWEVER they are on Ebay! So these two knots turned into Den Leader Training Award

[Faith]

Gotcha Do you by chance know what the device is? I didn't mind having the two blue/gold knots to represent Tiger and Wolf but now they are saying its one knot and one device (I can't find the device anywhere online nor the info stating that.) I'm in charge of training our pack on everything new coming out in the next year (I have a nifty little manual made up) but am sorely lacking in the awards department (what changed, what hasn't, etc.) Thanks, Jason!

[j.edi]

Gotcha Do you by chance know what the device is?

 

Devices are tiny, shiny brass pins: [TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]Tiger Cub device[/TD]

[TD]No. 615865[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Cub Scout device[/TD]

[TD]No. 604950[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Webelos device[/TD]

[TD]No. 00932[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Boy Scout device[/TD]

[TD]No. 00927[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Venturing device[/TD]

[TD]No. 00940[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Varsity Scout device[/TD]

[TD]No. 00928[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Sea Scouting device

(Formerly called Sea Exploring)[/TD]

[TD]No. 00931[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Exploring device[/TD]

[TD]No. 00930[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Commissioner device[/TD]

[TD]No. 00871[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]District Committee device[/TD]

[TD]No. 00872[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

http://usscouts.org/awards/devices.asp

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/cub-scout-pin.html#.VIngGCeWeG4

[Faith]

Thank you, j.edi! Don't know how I missed those as I have both of those sites bookmarked. Last question. Under the new (I assume they are new?) setup, if you get a knot first, then a device, how does one earn the Tiger cub device if your first year was as a Tiger leader? Is that if you do more than one year as one? Thanks again!

 

Ok, I may have answered myself. Seeing "The others, along with the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Venturing devices are worn on Training Awards and Scouter's Keys." - I assume that means you only earn the Tiger one as a scout, not as a leader. So you'd get the Cub Scout one for each year (but you can only wear one at a time.)

[JasonG172]

Are these called Tracks? out of curiosity where did the term "Device" come from

[JasonG172]

also dont forget to work on getting your WoodBadge Knot

 

http://www.boyscoutstore.com/woodbadge-knot-axe-in-log

[JasonG172]

images are horrible here

[Eagle94-A1]

I'd earn the blue and gold knot for Tiger year' date=' then a device for the Wolf year. [/quote']

 

Incorrect

 

Unlike the military which awards a device for subsequent awards, BS uses the same knots for multiple awards. The TCDL Award, CSDL Award, and WDL Award are THREE (emphasis) separate awards that use the same knot. So you should technically wear a TC device and a CS device

 

BUT they are a pain, literally, at times and a challenge keeping them on. When I was working for supply division, I had to wear all my devices ( CS, BS, and Sea Scout on the religious award knot and BS on my Training Award knot) and the backing would fall off from time to time, as well as the pins. However, rubber erasers fixed that..

 

So should be wearing 2 devices on the Den Leader Award Medal and Knot: Tiger Cub and Cub Scout.

 

And the devices is mostly for leaders, although youth can wear them if the situation merits i.e. earned their religious award as a Cub Scout, Webelos, Boy Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturer.

 

Normally a good link on this topic is http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066_Section3.pdf, but I noticed that while the editors now state the Den Leader Award can be earned by all DLs, they do not have the note that it "may be earned in several program phases. More than one knot of the same kind is not to be worn. Rather, the miniature devicesâ€â€Cub Scouting, No. 926; Boy Scouting, No. 927; Varsity Scouting, No. 928; Venturing, No. 940; Sea Scouting, No. 931; commissioner, No. 871; district committee member, No. 872â€â€are worn on the knot to designate the phase(s) of the program in which the key or award was earned" ike the Scouter's Training Award and Scouter's Key.

 

And someone posted the numeric code for the devices for when you purchase them.

[Faith]

Are these called Tracks? out of curiosity where did the term "Device" come from

 

 

I have no idea. Up until today, I didn't know they existed! lol. Just when I think I know a good bit too

[Faith]

The TCDL Award' date=' CSDL Award, and WDL Award are THREE (emphasis) separate awards that use the same knot. So you should technically wear a TC device and a CS device [/quote']

 

Now my first thought was also this. One knot as the base, then two pins on that one knot (as I did know the one knot was for all three now.)

 

- BUT -

 

Rather' date=' the miniature devicesâ€â€Cub Scouting, No. 926; Boy Scouting, No. 927; Varsity Scouting, No. 928; Venturing, No. 940; Sea Scouting, No. 931; commissioner, No. 871; district committee member, No. 872â€â€are worn on the knot to designate the phase(s) of the program in which the key or award was earned" ike the Scouter's Training Award and Scouter's Key.[/quote']

 

This lead me to believe I didn't wear the Tiger one at all, just one Cub Scouting device to represent my tenure as a leader in whole (all 5 years that I plan to lead - for now, the two I've completed.)

 

I saw on the link j.edi posted that the Tiger one wasn't for leaders (at least that's how I read that page - which I read at least four times to try and grasp what they meant.) Apparently lack of sleep this week is kicking in good today.

 

It states: The others, along with the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Venturing devices are worn on Training Awards and Scouter's Keys. The others not including the Tiger one.

 

BUT if you look up the Tiger device by its numeric code, it is called the Tiger Cub® Leader Device

 

So, to follow protocol:

 

Do I wear the one knot and the *one* Cub Scouting device?

- or -

Do I wear the one know and both the Tiger and Cub Scouting device?

[Faith]

Also, thank you for that website link. It finally loaded on my end. Apparently devices have been around longer than I realized, I'm not sure why more sites don't have that info up (maybe I'm just looking in all the wrong areas.) Part of me wishes I'd have been around when they had all the different knots for each area (I get the uniform looks much neater now but I always liked that how they told a story so-to-speak when I'd see others wearing them.)

I do know I'm getting the knot and the Cub Scouting device (I've since spoken to our advancement person since posting.) So unless I can wear the Tiger one as well, that will be all the ones I get (I assume) for my five years. Which is fine. I just wanted to make sure I was wearing the correct items.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help.

[Eagle94-A1]

The Tiger Cub device is actually the newest one, it was created AFTER the decision to merge all three DL awards into one. And it was pointed out that there was NO (emphasis) Tiger Cub device as originally there was no need for one.

 

So that may be why the TC device was not mentioned; it wasn't around yet when the book came out.

 

Also, the language in the notes have not been updated to include the the CS and Webelos devices for the Den Leader Awards. So it may have been overlooked by the editors. Not the first time that national had minor errors in it.

 

 

SO, wear you knot with the brand new TC Device and old CS Device on it with pride!

 

[Faith]

Thank you so much, y'all have a great rest of the week!