Scouts who don't pull their own weight @ campouts

[Lee M]

I am an ASM with 2 scouts in my Patrol who don't pull their own weight. Both have earned the rank of First Class. One is older (14), and is, well to be honest, fat & lazy. He would be content sitting around camp, hands in his pockets, doing nothing (or playing video games, which we don't allow). It is a chore to get him to anything assigned to him on the duty roster. The other is a young First Class Scout (12) and lives with 2 older sisters who do EVERYTHING for him. He's a bit immature, but, for instance, despite our efforts still claims to not know how to take down and fold a tent after 2 years in our Troop. This one does have his flashes of brilliance in certain situations, but I am tired of him showing up unprepared for most events, often throwing Mom under the bus for forgetting something of his. I understand that all boys have differing capabilities, but I do expect that these young men simply attempt to help out their patrol mates. Yes, we've constantly run the gambit of the Chain of Command - Patrol Leader, SPL, ASM SM, etc., to get them to perform, but it's becoming frustrating to the point I'd rather not have them along on a campout anymore. That's not a good attitude for me.

 

Anybody have some suggestions?

[JasonG172]

Swift kick in the ..... well maybe that won't work.

 

Give the kid that does nothing an extra job and have people sit around and watch him. The other situation, take mom out of the equation,

 

 

[perdidochas]

I am an ASM with 2 scouts in my Patrol who don't pull their own weight. Both have earned the rank of First Class. One is older (14), and is, well to be honest, fat & lazy. He would be content sitting around camp, hands in his pockets, doing nothing (or playing video games, which we don't allow). It is a chore to get him to anything assigned to him on the duty roster. The other is a young First Class Scout (12) and lives with 2 older sisters who do EVERYTHING for him. He's a bit immature, but, for instance, despite our efforts still claims to not know how to take down and fold a tent after 2 years in our Troop. This one does have his flashes of brilliance in certain situations, but I am tired of him showing up unprepared for most events, often throwing Mom under the bus for forgetting something of his. I understand that all boys have differing capabilities, but I do expect that these young men simply attempt to help out their patrol mates. Yes, we've constantly run the gambit of the Chain of Command - Patrol Leader, SPL, ASM SM, etc., to get them to perform, but it's becoming frustrating to the point I'd rather not have them along on a campout anymore. That's not a good attitude for me.

 

Anybody have some suggestions?

 

Do either of these boys want to be Star? You need to talk to them about Scout Spirit. Do either want to be in OA? Talk about cheerful service.

 

I agree with Jason's suggestions.

[T2Eagle]

This can take a lot of one on one coaching and leadership, and at this point it's probably beyond the capability of a PL or SPL to accomplish. Sit down with him before the camp out, probably at the meeting right before, and detail the specific tasks that you want him to accomplish. Get him to buy in and agree to them. Everyone believes, in theory, that they should do their share. Emphasize that his duties are his irrespective of what others are doing. An easy excuse is well so and so didn't do his thing, nip that before it starts. Talk to him again friday night when the trip starts, concentrate on the specific tasks again. This is a process, you're not going to get change right away, what you want is progress. Explain to his PL that he should refrain from giving him additional tasks, just concentrate on the ones he agreed to. If he's doing them praise him, if he's missing them pull him aside and remind him of your conversations. You're going to need to do this for several trips before he even begins to have ingrained in him that he needs to do this on his own, but you can achieve success.

 

I would add that if you think it would be helpful ask his parents to have the same talk with him right before the campout.

[qwazse]

What are the PL's telling you?

Do they think they can work with one boy but not the other?

How far apart does each patrol camp from the others?

You used the phrase "my patrol". Have you been assigned to be its advisor for any particular reason?

 

IMHO it is reasonable to suspend a boy for not participating in the life of the troop. But you really want to save that for a really bad apple. Maybe that applies to Mr. Do-nothing, but I don't think it applies to Mr. Slip-shod.

 

That said, if you're planning any kind of super-activity, you'll need multiple shake-downs and conditioning weekends to make sure these boys are getting up to speed.

[meschen]

To address a part of of your comment, we make it clear to our Scouts they are responsible for packing and unpacking their own gear. We drill this from day one. The second a Scout mentions mom when missing gear comes up I cut them off, and explain it was their job to pack and not mom's. Then, unless it is a safety issue, I tell them they just need to make due with what they brought.

 

We do have equipment checks for our longer back country trips, but otherwise we put it on the Scout so they learn responsibility.

[Twocubdad]

I've had guys like this. The normal result is misery. The key is control who gets miserable. The best outcome is for the other guys in the patrol to make them miserable enough that they comply or leave. Unfortunately, sometimes they don't take the hint and hang around making everyone else miserable.

 

So your best option is this: Send them home. If they want to be Scouts, they have to act like Scouts. Frankly, I'd pick a campout at least an hour away from home for this. Then have a nice long chat with the parent before putting them in the car.

 

The lynch pin of Scouting is trust. I have to trust the Scouts to do the right thing, make good decisions and at least try. It doesn't always work, but if a Scout isn't willing to at least put in a good effort it won't work at all. If they can't be trusted to follow the patrol duty roster and do what their chain of command is reasonably asking them to do, they can't be trusted with the other stuff either.

 

Sounds to me like these guys, the first one at least, don't want to be in Scouts. That's okay too. Not everyone does. If not, give them what they want.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

How 'bout forming a two man patrol?

 

 

Absent that, it really isn't your problem --- it's the Patrol Leader's problem. What kind of a Patrol Leader is there?

 

Even if you maintain the current patrol, I'd have no problem with the Patrol Leader assigning these two boys to camp and cook together, and let the chips fall where they may!

 

One of the reasons Scouting builds character is that boy learn that action have consequences. You and or the patrol leader have been bailing out these boys, so they don't have to face the consequence of their actions.

 

I fondly remember two boys who went out on a bicycling outing with our troop as a first outing. The Scouts warned the boys to hang their food to avoid having critters eat it, but they didn't.

 

The critter did eat it and there wasn't much left for these boys. They went hungry.

 

They nwever joined the troop but I suspect they might have learned something from the one outing they were on.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

 

[LeCastor]

That's not a good attitude for me.

 

 

I agree.

 

I am of the opinion that these two young men are the ones who need Scouting the most. When I was a youth and SPL of my Troop, there was a younger Scout who was a real horse's behind. But he stayed in Scouting and with the patient counseling of our Scoutmaster we learned how to work with him. He eventually became and Eagle Scout.

 

From what it sounds like, you have been assigned by the Scoutmaster to work with a particular patrol. You should be setting a good example and guiding the Patrol Leader to deal with the two young men. You aren't there to enjoy a smoothly run Troop where everything works like a Swiss clock. You are there to help mold young boys in to men of character. Does it suck from time to time? Yeah, it does. It's a real P.I.T.A. sometimes. But I have to remind myself that the "fat & lazy" boy needs me. So does the boy whose mother and sisters do the work for him.

 

Kicking the Scouts out of the Troop would be bad for them. Helping their patrol mates work together to lead by example is where it's at, ya dig? They might complain and grumble but that's life.

[qwazse]

One thing that may help for Mr. Do-Nothing is keeping him on the short list for special service projects that pop up from time to time. So, for example, you approach the PL and say "SPL and I need a volunteer to help set-up activity X. It may involve some hiking/hauling/touching base with the ranger. Is there an older first-class scout who we may borrow for the next few hours?" (nudge-nudge wink-wink).

[scoutergipper]

As is obvious, Lee, you're not alone. We all have Scouts like the ones you describe from time to time.

 

I am surprised any Patrol Leader would choose these two boys for his Patrol, except under duress. I like the "Patrol of Two" idea, and suspect that may end up happening by itself if the current PL doesn't somehow force the issue. Other Scouts and Adults need to quit bailing these two out. They need some positive peer pressure to help them understand what is expected.

[Cambridgeskip]

Our 2012 summer camp.... one patrol had a member, we'll call him Smithers, who had a habbit of going conveniently missing whenever there were any chores to be done. Gathering fire wood, cooking, cleaning up, You name it, Smithers would be missing and magically reappear when food was ready.

 

PL and APL, having tried nudging him in the right direction, decided he needed a huge great shove. One morning, regular as clock work, Smithers vanished just as they were getting a fire going for cooking. PL and APL got everyone in the patrol to work like demons, doing everything faster than it had ever been done before.

 

The result? When smithers reappeared all the bacon and eggy bread had been cooked and eaten, Smithers was left with stale bread and jam to eat. Smithers was unammused and came over to the leaders patrol where we were munching on some really rather good sausage sandwiches. He seemed to think that we were going to sort him out. "Is the bread mouldy Smithers?" we asked. "No" he confessed. "Is the jam mouldy Smithers?" we asked. "No" said he. "We we suggest you eat it then" said we!

 

Smithers became a rather more hard working scout after that.

 

The moral of course is ensuring that there is both a stick and a carrot. You work hard you get the carrot. You don't, then you get the stick.

[Hedgehog]

I prefer the "Assistant Scoutmaster's 30 Seconds" to provide sound-bites that the kids remember. Two of my favorites which are applicable in this instance are:

 

Scouting is about leadership and leadership is about being responsible for other people. The first step in being responsible for others is learning to be responsible for yourself. (I tell this to both scouts and their parents. The second time I tell a scout, I 'll say the first sentence and the half the second sentence and they will fill in the rest. I rarely have to use it a third time).

 

If your hands are in your pocket or you are sitting down, you aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing. (I use this one when everyone else is busy and someone has either done their job, doesn't know what their job is or doesn't have a job. It is usually followed by a question from the scout along the lines of "what should I be doing?" At that point, I send walk them over to their patrol leader who gladly comes up with a way for them to help. The best is when the scouts start saying it to other scouts.)

 

[Twocubdad]

A two-man patrol. That's evil...... I like it!

 

LeCastor -- I'm not suggesting the Scouts be booted from the troop, just sent home from the campout. These guys have no consequences for their poor behavior. My understanding from Lee's post is the youth leadership is at the end of its rope in dealing with these two. The adults can counsel the boys, but at the end of the day they have to make a decision to participate or not. We can't beat them, we can't skin them, we can't eat them. If they don't want to participate, our best option is to send them home. The door is open for them at the next troop meeting and on the next campout, but if their behavior is the same the result will be the same.

 

A big part of doing this is to get the parent's attention. If they have to interrupt their "free" weekend and drive a couple hours to camp and back will likely focus more on their son's behavior. Our best hope is the ride home results in some adjustments in attitude.

 

And if the boy and his parents decide Scouting isn't for him, so be it. That is their decision to make. Scouting is only beneficial to a young man if he is willing to partake of it. Showing up, sitting on his duff and causing problems for the other scouts is of little benefit to that Scout. Sooner or later the troop will lose boys who want to participate but are frustrated with the slackers.

[SeattlePioneer]

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EXCELLENT!

 

 

I always imagine that one of the great eye opening experiences in growing up is when a Scout becomnes a Patrol Leader and discover that while he can GIVE orders, getting patrol members to follow them is often quite a different thing! Often the new Patrol Leader was one of the Patrol members who didn;t cooperate much with the Den Leader!