confusing policies two women leaders taking boys on overnight trip

[kc8vqf]

Here is something i have been confused about lately. In venturing if there are female scouts we need both female and male leaders. But i can not find where two female leaders can not take a troop of boys camping. I think it falls under co ed camping because you Have both males and females (leaders), so you should have leaders of both sexes. What are your thoughts?

[oddball]

The Guide to Safe Scouting (http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx#f) would require male and female leaders since a female leader camping out would make the event a co-ed activity.

 

Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activities even those including parent and childâ€â€require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA.

[qwazse]

We love our stereotypes don't we?

A couple of dads can't be trusted with the young ladies, but a couple of moms can be trusted with the boys?

 

The intent of the guideline is to ensure that overnights have at least one member of the same sex as the youth participants.

[O'Scouter]

I don't know. I have seen some pretty awful behavior on trips from some of the dads that I haven't seen from the moms. Maybe they are better at hiding it.

[kc8vqf]

I thought it came under coed. Now i have some people telling me we only need one leader at meetings too. Their reasoning is that gss says two deep for trips and outings. I am under the impression you should always have two deep.

[scoutldr]

"Two deep" applies to trips and outings. "No one on one contact" applies to all situations. They are not the same thing.

[oddball]

I thought it came under coed. Now i have some people telling me we only need one leader at meetings too. Their reasoning is that gss says two deep for trips and outings. I am under the impression you should always have two deep.

 

Focus less on what people tell you, and more on what is written in stone.

 

Use the same link I posted earlier, and read:

 

One-on-one contact between adults and Scouts prohibited. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster’s conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

 

So, yes, you would need a meeting to have more than one adult. With a single adult at a meeting, one-on-one contact is inevitable.

 

[qwazse]

O'S. It's easy for us to see more men behaving badly on campouts ... We camp with mostly men. But YPT isn't just about adult behavior. It's about the kind of accusations troubled teens may make!

[Eagle94-A1]

But YPT isn't just about adult behavior. It's about the kind of accusations troubled teens may make!

 

Yep, YPT is to protect both the youth AND adults. I know of one situation where a very experienced and good leader lost her membership because of an accusation. Long story short, she caught a "scout" being a peeping Tom by the ladies' showers after hours. When he was confronted by folks about it, he accused her of making a pass. Since it was a "He said, she said" case, national took his word over hers.

 

[O'Scouter]

Fair points.

[qwazse]

Fair points.

For a twisted world.

 

The entire policy is a long bet on certain combinations of youth and adult sexes being lest likely to yield malfeasance by any member of the group.

 

This discounts the possibility that a given pair of dads may be the best chaperones a given group of girls could ever have, or that a given pair of moms may be best for a group of boys. It also ignores the possibility that certain youth have qualified to take their mates hiking and camping, and they may be better off with no adults present. Always be aware that regulatory compliance may reduce your organization's time in court, but will only go so far in minimizing your or your youths' risk of exposure to abuse.

[TAHAWK]

 

Focus less on what people tell you, and more on what is written in stone.

 

Use the same link I posted earlier, and read:

 

One-on-one contact between adults and Scouts prohibited. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster’s conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

 

So, yes, you would need a meeting to have more than one adult. With a single adult at a meeting, one-on-one contact is inevitable.

 

"No one-on-one contact" is a separate barrier to abuse that the "two deep rule on outings." So long as the adult is not alone with a youth, the "no one-on-one" standard is met. That means a meeting with a Merit Badge Counselor and two youth is permitted. That means a single adult driving a vehicle with multiple youth is permitted. That means a meeting with one adult is permitted. Whether the latter is wise is a different issue.

 

That BSA has a problem with writing clearly on occasion does not mean one must or should read one word in one sentence ("adults") in isolation from the context and all other writing on the subject. If we did, get our noses down on the page and read that word in that fashion then the word would require three total adults so we can have one adult off on the "situation" in view of "other adults."

 

Even were the quoted language meant to blur "no one-on-one" with "two deep," it speaks to "situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's Conference." It does not, on its face, address all situations.

[IM_Kathy]

yep it's a confusing thing at times. Me (SM) and another female can take a group of boys that are boy scouts camping, but if they were in Ventures then I'd need a male to come along. Our females are almost always willing and available to camp, but the men are sometimes all busy the same weekend. I don't care, the boys don't care - so lets camp!

[fred johnson]

yep it's a confusing thing at times. Me (SM) and another female can take a group of boys that are boy scouts camping' date=' but if they were in Ventures then I'd need a male to come along. Our females are almost always willing and available to camp, but the men are sometimes all busy the same weekend. I don't care, the boys don't care - so lets camp![/quote']

 

... I don't care ...

 

You made me cringe. It's the old-boy attitude only with reversed genders. You might be safe and good, but you are also setting an example and you've signed an agreement to follow BSA's rules when you became scoutmaster. Your events are co-ed just by having you as the leader. You need to have a male adult leader on the trip too.

 

You might be safe, but that's not the issue. The issue is predators exist and abuse happens. Your actions are chipping away at the safety net. IMHO, it's better the boys don't camp than to camp in this situation. I'm sorry to say that, but that's true.

[kc8vqf]

They need to have someone other than a lawyer write the rules. It should be in plain English and easy to understand for all. I do think there should be a male at the camp out for the same reasons a female needs to be there for a venture crew. There are just sometimes you need to have a male when you are dealing with boys.