WEBELOS den – Respect and Discipline

[CNYScouter]

I’ve posted previously that my son is a Den Chief assigned to a WEBELOS 2 den

He was assigned to this den so I could help out.

 

I have been asked by both the Pack and Troop leadership to “get the WEBELOS ready to be Boy Scoutsâ€Â

 

Not only is this den behind in advancement (only 1 out 7 have the WEBLEOS badge) but after sitting back and observing the Den for a couple of weeks I am seeing some other behavior that just won’t fly when they move up to a boy scout troop.

1. There is one boy who doesn’t stand during the pledge much less the promise. The other WEBELOS are very inattentive and screw around during this also. I have yet to see the DL say anything to the boys.
   
2. They don’t wear their uniforms. Last week the DL told the boys that the CM was going to do a uniform inspection not a single Cub was in uniform. I heard one boy tell his dad that he wasn’t going to wear that “monkey suitâ€Â.
   
3. Tucking in of the shirt. The couple of WEBELOS that I have seen in uniform won’t tuck the shirt in. I had to ask one boy 3 or 4 times to tuck in his shirt before he would do it and he pulled it out as soon as my back was turned. My son’s troop won’t even start a meeting until all the Scouts are ready
   

I am not sure what do about this as when I was a Den leader the expectations for this type of stuff was told in the beginning and it usually took a couple of meeting with some gentile reminders and the boys understood.

I’ve posted previously that my son is a Den Chief assigned to a WEBELOS 2 den

He was assigned to this den so I could help out.

I have been asked by both the Pack and Troop leadership to “get the WEBELOS ready to be Boy Scoutsâ€Â

Not only is this den behind in advancement (only 1 out 7 have the WEBLEOS badge) but after sitting back and observing the Den for a couple of weeks I am seeing some other behavior that just won’t fly when they move up to a boy scout troop.

1. There is one boy who doesn’t stand during the pledge much less the promise. The other WEBELOS are very inattentive and screw around during this also. I have yet to see the DL say anything to the boys.
   
2. They don’t wear their uniforms. Last week the DL told the boys that the CM was going to do a uniform inspection not a single Cub was in uniform. I heard one boy tell his dad that he wasn’t going to wear that “monkey suitâ€Â.
   
3. Tucking in of the shirt. The couple of WEBELOS that I have seen in uniform won’t tuck the shirt in. I had to ask one boy 3 or 4 times to tuck in his shirt before he would do it and he pulled it out as soon as my back was turned. My son’s troop won’t even start a meeting until all the Scouts are ready
   

I am not sure what do about this as when I was a Den leader the expectations for this type of stuff was told in the beginning and it usually took a couple of meeting with some gentile reminders and the boys understood.

There is only about 9 or 10 Den meetings left before they cross over so It’s not like they is a great deal of time.

....and as I have said in my other posts the parents are expecting these boys to crossover at the B&G. They have already asked the Pack CC to "waive" AOL requirements so there son's can crossover.

 

[perdidochas]

First, have these Webelos scouts met with the Troop? Maybe if they see the Troop in uniform, they will get the hint, especially if the SM praises some of the Boy Scouts for the uniform.

 

I think the Den Chief should tell the boys the expectations of the troop.

 

Unless the boys are 11 or have finished the 4th grade, they can't cross over to Boy Scouts. They need to get AOL first, and the first requriement for AOL is the Webelos badge. There is no such thing as waiving AOL requirements, unless the boys have disabilities, and in that case it's replacement of, not waiving of requirements.

 

 

Are you sure you want these Webelos in your troop? They sound pretty bad. If they get waived in to AOL, then they will be expecting to be given all ranks. The Troop leadership is going to have a rough year or two with them.

[scoutergipper]

A friendly discussion with the Den Leader might be in order. He doesn't have a Webelos 2 Den, he has a street gang. He should be enforcing the things you've observed are not happening. These boys are going to embarrass themselves once they get out of whatever bubble they're currently living in and out into the real world.

[JasonG172]

someone needs to pull their Belt out ! just kidding !

[qwazse]

I’ve posted previously that my son is a Den Chief assigned to a WEBELOS 2 den

He was assigned to this den so I could help out.

... I am not sure what do about this as when I was a Den leader the expectations for this type of stuff was told in the beginning and it usually took a couple of meeting with some gentile reminders and the boys understood.

There is only about 9 or 10 Den meetings left before they cross over so It’s not like they is a great deal of time.

....and as I have said in my other posts the parents are expecting these boys to crossover at the B&G. They have already asked the Pack CC to "waive" AOL requirements so there son's can crossover.

 

CNY, you've read this forum enough to know the answer. Cut the BS from the BSA.

 

Your son is the DC. He is the one to help out. He is the one to tell these boys what's so important about uniforming. He has the right to ask the boys to shape up or else he will be embarrassed to introduce them to his troop. At the same time, he is the one who can tell the boys that AoL sets them up for a successful introduction to troop life. They should make an honest effort to earn it. But it's okay if they don't. They can still join the troop when they meet the age/grade limit. If your son is feeling disrespected, he can talk to DL, CM and SM about how to handle it.

 

You may be there to put the parents in line. So, take them into another room if you have to. Assure them that the AoL requirements must be completed as written to earn the award. The DL is more than happy to read those loosely. But there has to be a good faith effort on the part of the boy and his family. If the requirements are not completed the award will not be earned. The B&G is an imaginary deadline as far as you are concerned and any attempt to link it to AoL is a drag on the Pack's program. Furthermore, if any boy gets so much as a bead under false pretenses, you would rather him look for another troop. Otherwise, your troop is happy to take in any boy who ages in unpretentiously. Inform them that sometimes not earning AoL is a healthy way for a boy to start his trail to Eagle.

 

I guess epithets like "cupcake" and "parlor" scout are in order. But, it seems like you don't know these parents well enough to use them.

[Sidney Porter]

Has this den leader been in charge since they were tigers? If they have been working this way for 4 years it will be hard to change the den culture in over the next 3-6 months.

 

I am struggling with the fact that your son was brought in as den chief so you could get the den in order requested by the troop and pack. Is the den leader on board with this? Or is the leadership trying to sneak one past the den leader. If the den leader is not doing his job the CM shouled either get a new den leader (you) or the CM should be in there getting his hands dirty and fixing it. If you don't have the support of the den leader and he doesnt know why you are really there this is not going to work out.

 

That being said do you focus on changing the culture or just pushing through the requirements? I think culture will be harder to change especially if you are not the authority figure.

[SeattlePioneer]

<<~~2.They don’t wear their uniforms. Last week the DL told the boys that the CM was going to do a uniform inspection not a single Cub was in uniform. I heard one boy tell his dad that he wasn’t going to wear that “monkey suitâ€Â.>>

 

 

They ARE in uniform. Just not the Cub Scout uniform.

 

There are many ways boys can learn. One way is by experience. Right now, they see no reason to be IN a Cub Scout uniform, and good reasons NOT to be in a Cub Scout uniform.

 

I like the idea of inviting them to attend your troop meeting, and perhaps they could do a uniform inspection of the Boy Scouts.

 

Perhaps one patrol good be a full, resplendent uniforms, and another in dirty cast offs with untucked shirts and such.

 

The boys need to decide for themselves that they want to be in uniform, in my view.

[ScoutNut]

Why is your son involved?

 

It seems like this is all about what YOU - the Troop adult representative - wants to do with the den.

 

Either your son is a genuine Den Chief - or you are. You can't have it both ways.

[SSScout]

Who is the DL? You? or... ? The DCh is not going to have any effect if he doesn't have the back up from the DL.

Someone needs to ASK the boys what is going on.... Possible conversation:

"Hey, boys, tell me why you are in Cubs? "

 

"Do you think Boy Scouts is what you want to be? "

 

"You boys are almost ready for Boy Scouts. My Troop does (camp, hike, rock climb, swim, air museum visit, whatever...). Does any of that interest you? Yeah, it ain't Cub Scouts, but Cubs is your practice for Boy Scouts. "

 

"What is it about this 'monkey suit' that turns you off? Scouts wear a uniform, it's part of who they are, it indicates they kind of kid they are. Everybody wears some kind of uniform, especially at work. . Even YOU are wearing a uniform, right now..... It sort of indicates what kind of a person you are. Let's look at the Scout Law. "

 

And go on from there. What do you think? This needs more listening than telling. The dynamics of their family/peer/social life are impinging here and if you want to convince them of the advantages of BEING a Scout and wearing the uniform, you need to address those dynamics.

[st0ut717]

Why do these parents want AoL waived? They dont seem to be with the scout program. It sounds to me that they think this is an everyone gets a trophy program.

It seems the parents want boy scouts more then the kids. not a good situation for the boys or the troop that gets them.

 

See what happens when the DC says to them "BTW i want you to be boy scouts but not in my troop"

 

[blw2]

I feel your pain.

It's a fine line disciplining someone else's kid, especially at the cub level.

We have a few like that.... screwing around and not taking things seriously.

 

We were recently on an overnight at Sea World, one kid cuts the corner between two walkways, right through the plant bed. So I stop him and nicely point out the difference between the sidewalk and the flower bed. He stopped, looked at me, and turned back around to catch up to his friends before I was even finished.

In my opinion, this is where the parent should pull that kid aside.

Things like that happen all the time at pack meetings too. Very frustrating..... especially when it's my kid! He hears about it for sure!

There are so many parents though, that don't have nearly the level of expectations, and if that's the way it is at home,

 

I think that's one of the things being lost with our lack of uniforming, and pride in it. When you are wearing a uniform that indicates that you are part of something honorable, I think that it makes a person stand a little taller and make an effort to project some of that honor.

But what are you going to do when even the DL's refuse to wear the full uniform, or wear it untucked?

ugh.

 

[BadenP]

You all know the old adage "Respect is earned, not given." Too many den leaders try to be best pals with the boys instead of their leader so when discipline is needed the boys don't respect them enough to obey or listen to them. I was a webelos leader for two years because nobody else wanted to deal with the older boys. While we had a lot of fun in our den the boys knew what and where the boundaries were. Of the 12 boys in my den 11 graduated to boy scouts, all of them earned their AOL, and eight of them became Eagle Scouts.

[qwazse]

I never saw my Webelos DL in uniform (either BSA or his State Police uni). He was younger, and I think he was making it clear that he was one of us. And, yes we did take advantage of it and prank him from time to time. But it wasn't that hard to know his boundaries and we definitely stayed within those. In exchange, he got us into all kinds of activities -- including one fond memory of him teaching us how to shoot his .38 special. (G2SS wonks can sit on your hands, please. This was a county where boys made their own gunpowder because it was cheaper than playing video games all day.) I think he cut me some slack with a few pins as well -- basically calling my dad and asking if I at least tried each activity. I kinda felt bad for some of those "gimmes" ... But at least my dad told me why he thought I deserved them, which brings me to a point I didn't make earlier: boys know if you "cut corners", and it adds a little shame to the award. So remind parents that their kids deserve a real sense of pride. They need to know someone loves them even if they fall short, but they also need to know that there will be no whitewashing of shortfalls.