WEBELOS Character Connection Faith – Atheist work around?

[st0ut717]

fred johnson' date=' I'm just getting back to your response to me of a couple of days ago. You are reading into my question things that are not there. In fact, I DO think the BSA has, and occasionally enforces, a "belief" requirement - but it is not quite the same as the official written BSA policy that click quoted earlier. It's just, "believe in a higher power." Maybe it's also, "And don't refuse to say the Scout Oath because it refers to God, and don't say you're an atheist." The exact boundaries, of course, are not crystal clear. There have been many discussions on here about Buddhism, a subject I know little about, but the attitude of the BSA seems to be that it is "spiritual enough." And what if the "higher power" someone believes in is the "worldwide brotherhood of humankind"? Or just "nature"? No prayers, no worship, no organizations, no buildings, no donations, no missions, no clergy, no religious awards, just a belief in one or the other of those things - is that enough? [/quote'] Buddhism there no God as a Christianity defines it. There is spiritual energy that flows though all things (Qi). And our place is to figure out where we fit into the Qi That's the elevator pitch.

[NJCubScouter]

Buddhism there no God as a Christianity defines it. There is spiritual energy that flows though all things (Qi). And our place is to figure out where we fit into the Qi That's the elevator pitch.

Sounds like The Force. (I know, it's really the other way around.)

[fred johnson]

Is that not working wishing the rules and laws as a citizen to change a rule or law you don't agree with

 

The challenge is BSA is not society and we are not citizen's of BSA. BSA is a private group. When you advocate the opposite of the private group, don't be surprised if you are asked to leave. On the other hand, I hope you continue advocating for what you believe is right. Just realize it's not always compatible with membership.

 

 

​ no your did not directly say that but the impression I get is that you would based on your comments.

 

​I should back track slightly. I read your comment as saying the scout had to be a member of a church. I see I misinterpretted what you said. I'll reply correctly to what you said.

 

 

​Fred so a scout that isn't your churches religion isn't allowed to publicly express their religion?

 

I have not seen it happen, but I can see where it could if discussions moved toward advocacy and/or using membership as a public forum. Essentially, as a unit level scouter, we have dual responsibilities. One toward BSA. One toward the charter partner. A scouting unit is an extension of both. As such, you need to work within the boundaries of each.

 

For example, if you are a member of a member of a troop sponsored by a Catholic church, I am sure you can debate, discuss and share your beliefs with other member even though your beliefs might not be the same. But if you started trying to convert the scouts ... or continually tell them why their faith is wrong ... or used membership or scout shirt as a public platform telling everyone else why your scouting unit is wrong ... expect to be asked to leave. ... It's common sense.

[fred johnson]

fred johnson,

 

I'm just getting back to your response to me of a couple of days ago. You are reading into my question things that are not there. In fact, I DO think the BSA has, and occasionally enforces, a "belief" requirement - but it is not quite the same as the official written BSA policy that click quoted earlier. It's just, "believe in a higher power." Maybe it's also, "And don't refuse to say the Scout Oath because it refers to God, and don't say you're an atheist."

 

The exact boundaries, of course, are not crystal clear. There have been many discussions on here about Buddhism, a subject I know little about, but the attitude of the BSA seems to be that it is "spiritual enough." And what if the "higher power" someone believes in is the "worldwide brotherhood of humankind"? Or just "nature"? No prayers, no worship, no organizations, no buildings, no donations, no missions, no clergy, no religious awards, just a belief in one or the other of those things - is that enough?

 

LOL ... NJCubScouter ... You are right. With your 2nd paragraph ... and from what I've seen ... that's fine. BSA will not nit pick the situation. BSA is faith friendly, not faith based. "worldwide brotherhood of humankind"? I could see someone using that to justify keeping their membership. I'd hope most members would be smart enough to just let a sleeping dog lie.

 

But if the member used it as a public platform or advocacy or advocating changing BSA policies, then I'd expect the person might get the boot.

 

[wdfa89]

When I was my son's DL I decided I didn't really want to "teach" the religious requirements. I was prepared to do so but personally I thought those were best completed by each family within their faith tradition and choice. Don't know if I had any atheists (I doubt it, probably more agnostic or just not a lot of thought altogether but I digress) but I know I had a gamut from regular church attenders, strong in their chosen faith, to folks who probably were not so. I just didn't see this as the forum to make folks uncomfortable so I gave the parents a choice. I spelled out the requirements, said if you tell e you completed as a family I will take it as complete, otherwise I would conduct a meeting to accomplish w/in my faith and traditions (not signing up for a comparative religions course).

 

My families took care of the requirements themselves which I felt was more than acceptable, particularly for Cub Scuts

[PbW]

When I was my son's DL I decided I didn't really want to "teach" the religious requirements. I was prepared to do so but personally I thought those were best completed by each family within their faith tradition and choice. Don't know if I had any atheists (I doubt it, probably more agnostic or just not a lot of thought altogether but I digress) but I know I had a gamut from regular church attenders, strong in their chosen faith, to folks who probably were not so. I just didn't see this as the forum to make folks uncomfortable so I gave the parents a choice. I spelled out the requirements, said if you tell e you completed as a family I will take it as complete, otherwise I would conduct a meeting to accomplish w/in my faith and traditions (not signing up for a comparative religions course).

 

My families took care of the requirements themselves which I felt was more than acceptable, particularly for Cub Scuts

 

As cubmaster that's how I've asked the DLs in my pack to run it. Let the families manage the religious achievement requirements on their own, but make it clear that they need to do it. So far it's worked out well and no DL has had to manage the complexity of ten different religious practices.

 

I've seen the argument made that doing these things in a den is a great way for the boys to learn of other faiths than their own, but I've also heard the counter argument that 1-5th grade isn't the time to be teaching Comparative Religions 101. Hence I've kept it out of the program run by the pack.