WEBELOS Character Connection Faith – Atheist work around?

[CNYScouter]

My son is a Den Chief working with a second year WEBELOS den.

One of the reason’s he was assigned to this Den is so I could help the DL as this Den is way behind with advancement. I am currently registered as a Committee Member in this Pack.

 

Only 1 of the 7 WELEBOS left in the Den has finished the requirements for the WEBELOS badge. (there were 12 or 13 last year)

Only 2 of them have the Outdoorsman activity pin finished

 

Last night I was reviewing what requirements were needed for the rest of the Den to get the WEBELOS badge.

One WEBELOS only needs to finish the Character Connection for Faith.

 

When I asked the DL what was issue with this Scout finishing, he responded that the family was Atheist.

 

The DL said he found a work around/alternate requirements on the internet for this and the Scout just hasn’t done them yet

 

I have never heard of this nor have I heard of this in any training I have even taken or taught.

I have tried a few searched but have so far come up empty

Has anyone provide a link to this “work around�

 

I have notified the Pack leadership (and Troop Leadership) about this and they are deciding on how to proceed.

 

I don’t know how the Scout made it this far as he has been in the Pack since Tigers and it has never come up before.

[st0ut717]

It would be helpful if you posted the link to this work-around

[qwazse]

Do share the link if you have one, but ...

 

At this point (assuming the family does not want the boy "experimenting" with religion), the only way to maintain the dignity of all parties involved is to allow parents the right to refuse the award.

 

It's perfectly reasonable for scouts to make it this far without controversy. But clearly playing cat-and-mouse with requirements is not a behavior I want to encourage in any citizen.

 

Regarding membership, my religious and ethnic persuasion demands that I do everything possible to be hospitable and keep this family on the roster, and keep National's nose out of it! It sounds like you're of the same opinion.

[PbW]

You say this boy has been in the pack since Tigers, but you haven't mentioned if he's earned his ranks each year. Since each rank does have some sort of religious requirement this would have to have been addresses previously. How did he earn rank in previous years and complete the religious/faith requirements?

 

Or maybe, since your son is only the Den Chief you can leave it alone and let the Den Lead and Cub Master handle the situation. It shouldn't really be your concern until he hits Boy Scouts and that's only if you're the Scoutmaster.

[SSScout]

A lot of this is "knowledge" rather than "doing". "A Scout is Reverent" requires knowledge about the "other".

As a Quaker, I will not "do" the Pledge of Allegiance. But my Scout son (also avowed Quaker) did well in explaining it to his Scout leaders when it was required that he "know" it.

It is much the same here, so far.... The Cub Scout needs to "know" about religion. The BSA has done a terrible job writing this requirement.

 

"Religious Organization"? Read "family". "Religious Leader"? Read mom and dad......

If you read thru the requirements, the biggest stumble for an atheist I feel (please correct me if I'm wrong here) would be:

""~~â—¾With your religious leader, discuss and make a plan to do two things you think will help you draw nearer to God. Do these things for a month.

â—¾For at least a month, pray or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, temple, mosque, synagogue, or religious group."

 

Since the atheist's "duty to God" is to NOT believe, the family (and the local Ethical Society?) can "work around " these by still planning two things to help show their loyalty to the humanity in all of us. Prayer and/or meditation? It has been proven that the skills inherent in meditation are very beneficial to the human being, even without the direction of attention toward a deity.

 

In traditional Quaker worship ("after the manner of Friends") , we sit silently, waiting for the Holy Spirit (called by other names in the range of Quaker belief) to inspire us to minister to each other. Someone may be moved to stand and speak a message, or we may sit silent for an hour. New comers often call this "meditation", but it becomes more than that.

I can accept meditation as performed by an atheist (and we have some in my home meeting. Another story, another time) as a form of "worship" for their Humanistic purposes.

 

One basis for my Quaker faith is the belief (!) that "there is that of God in all men ". Your atheist faith in the LACK of a god is good enough for me. " By their fruits shall you know them."

 

[qwazse]

Nice Quaker world view, SSScout, and it sounds like this family may be doing something of the sort. (Lacking a link, we can't tell for sure.) But I wonder if the ancient Christians were offered similar thought experiments in attempts to get them to burn incense to Ceasar?

[CNYScouter]

If I had the link I would have posted it but so far I have not gotten one from the DL nor can I find anything doing a search myself.

I am more than just the Den Chiefs Dad in this situation.

Because this Den is so far behind in advancement I have been asked by both the Pack Leadership and the Troop leadership to work with this Den so they can cross over to Boy Scouts by the B&G in Feb.

I was given a copy of the Den’s Advancement record from both the Den Leader and the Pack Committee Chair.

This Cub has earned all his ranks up until this point.

After seeing this Den operate I would have guess that this hasn’t been an issue before as the DL just gave the cub a pass on this requirement

I am guessing this because of two reasons

1. The DL had no idea that Atheists are excluded from joining the BSA.
   
2. Because they are so far behind the parents in this Den has asked the Pack Committee chair to “waive†any unfinished requirements so their sons can get AOL awarded at the B&G s they can cross into the Troop in Feb.
   

I have passed this information along to the COR, CC, Cm and the UC for the Pack and Troop to dela with this issue

[DigitalScout]

In my opinion, faith, philosophy, and religion are highly personal and should not be scrutinized or debated by the unit leadership. If the family says they fulfilled the requirement, that should be good enough.

[qwazse]

...

I am guessing this because of two reasons

1. The DL had no idea that Atheists are excluded from joining the BSA.
   
2. Because they are so far behind the parents in this Den has asked the Pack Committee chair to “waive†any unfinished requirements so their sons can get AOL awarded at the B&G s they can cross into the Troop in Feb.
   

I have passed this information along to the COR, CC, Cm and the UC for the Pack and Troop to deal with this issue

 

CNY, this is wrong on a number of levels, and one family who shuns religion is the least of your worries, IMHO. Boys don't need AOL to cross over. They don't need to cross-over in any particular time frame. And they certainly don't need to do it for any B&G dog-and-pony show.

 

If the boys want to hussle up and do those requirements in the next three months, fine. If not, you should tell the Pack Committee to not "waive" any requirements except for physical disability. Your son has the opportunity to actually get a den full of boys to enjoy scouting. He doesn't need to be involved in any "rubber stamping.":confused:

 

If, starting in February, the troop wants to welcome the Webelos who haven't earned AoL to "visit" meetings and events on a regular basis, that's fine too. As each boy comes of age or graduates 5th grade, hand them the application for transfer.

 

Actually, if a few of them cross over without AoL, your son should consider himself a real success. Why? Because he will have presented scouting to those boys as something more than a pathway to more bling.

[st0ut717]

You should whisper to the family that pastafarian is as acceptable as any other religion.

 

 

[fred johnson]

You say this boy has been in the pack since Tigers' date=' but you haven't mentioned if he's earned his ranks each year. Since each rank does have some sort of religious requirement this would have to have been addresses previously. How did he earn rank in previous years and complete the religious/faith requirements?[/quote']

 

Tiger, Wolf & Bear have no explicit requirement to practice. Tiger has none. Wolf & Bear are fulfilled by conversations with parents. An atheist could easily earn all three without violating, ignoring or minimizing any such requirements.

 

[fred johnson]

In my opinion' date=' faith, philosophy, and religion are highly personal and should not be scrutinized or debated by the unit leadership. If the family says they fulfilled the requirement, that should be good enough.[/quote']

 

Fully agree.

[CNYScouter]

so you ignore that BSA National excludes Atheist's from being in the BSA?

 

[fred johnson]

We debate rules, but we support the kids. The kid will benefit from scouting and the scouting program can survive his presence. If the parents are not raising the an atheist issue, let them be and let the kid enjoy scouting.

 

There is just ugly destruction around these political debates and both sides are damaged when it affects the kids. Essentially, I get upset when people put kids in the center. So the kid might not be able to do the faith requirement to some interpretation of the standard. With faith, it's about performing to the level of their own beliefs. They can focus on their spiritual beliefs and complete the requirements per that position.

 

As a leader, I would only get involved if the parents are using scouting for a political agenda ... such as public-ally making a point. Specifically if the parents are not raising the an atheist issue, let them be and let the kid enjoy scouting.

 

 

[DigitalScout]

so you ignore that BSA National excludes Atheist's from being in the BSA?

 

I think I speak for most adult volunteers that it's not our job to be some kind of the BSA basiji.

 

Unit leaders should review the Declaration of Religious Principle before getting out the atheist litmus paper:

• The BSA does not define ... a belief in God or the practice of religion.
  
• The BSA does not require membership in a religious organization or association ...
  
• The BSA respects the convictions of those who exercise their constitutional freedom to
  practice religion as individuals ...
  
• Only people willing to subscribe to these declarations of principles shall be entitled to
  certificates of leadership ...
  

They way I read it, if you accept a leadership position, you can't define another person's religious practice or God and you must respect their constitutional religious freedom. Enforcing some amorphous religion requirement when the other person gets to define what religion and God means to them is an impossibility.