Honor Camping Societies...

[WAKWIB]

matuawarrior writes:

"We are in the process of establishing our own local Honor Camper Society. The Venturers in my crew have come up with different requirements for each Honor Level. We are still looking into MOS sites and have borrowed some of their positions and duties but will localize it here."

 

I think creating a honor society based on the native culture of your area is a fantastic idea. A couple of suggestions.

1. Your new group should have a definite set of unique core values. A set of obligations or resolutions or whatever you may call them that the members can commit to and that will motivate them to futher service. Something that produces a life-change (hopefully) and personal growth. Make these as specific as possible, something that can inspire immediate action. Have the new candidates share what they have committed to do with a ranking member of the "tribe", and use this as a point of accountablity to gauge when a person is ready to move up in the "tribe".

 

2. Create a meaningful legend, that tells the "tribe's" story, and that reinforces the values you wish to transmit.

 

3. Showmanship!!! Have a colorful, well-planned presentation of your group's ceremonies. In Mic-O-Say, some of our ceremonies are, of course, for members only, but we begin the process of induction with a large ceremony that all campers attend. The mystique of your oganization created by these ceremonies, will motivate younger Scouts to stay involved so that they too, may one day be able to participate.

 

I'll use myself as a case in point. My first year at Scout summer camp, I was quite homesick. For many reasons, I was just not a happy camper. That all changed when I saw my first Mic-O-Say Call Night Ceremony which is when the new candidates are called out to begin the process of membership. The costumes, the speeches, the drama of the whole evening captured my imagination. By the end of the night, the homesickness was gone...and I resolved that I would press on with Scouting. As a result, the homesick little boy eventually went on to become an Eagle Scout, served for 6 summers on the camp staff, and became a ranking member in the Tribe. Your group will hopefully not only have a dynamic impact on the older youth who participate, but will also inspire new Scouts as well.

I wish the very best to you and the Venture crew as you implement your new program.

 

[Adrianvs]

The biggest problem that we have encountered in creating our new society isn't the lore,symbols, or ceremonies; it's the structure. Specifically, we don't know how to structure the organization so that it may be effectively led as a group. Do we adopt a council of elected officials like OA? One problem with that is that the symbolic progression is very important and it would be difficult to have the positions open to all members. Progression in the tribe is largely a matter of experience, skill, and ability. Those who have been inducted into the "highest" circle aren't supposed to just be folks who are given an award, but those put in that position to lead and serve. Must there be people elected to yearly terms at all? How big is the risk of a "permanent establishment" running the show and excluding others for years on end?

 

We also have to decide how to bring about the first generation. In other words, who starts at what level? An objective means would be to use the number of years attending the camp as a basis, but what role should merit play? Shouldn't there be some exclusion? Who decides? If the people are assigned to levels, should they be given a crash course in what they "missed," so to speak? The four main ceremonial levels aren't necessarily dependent upon each other, but they do follow the historical figures which typify them chronologically. The backstory needs to be understood up to the point that they are. We are also considering multiple paths through the levels. Not every person must fill the same positions as they progress. Some may wish to be chanters and speakers. Others prefer drumming and making outfitting. Some are most content building fires and torches. There are all different types and at some level, it seems we need to accomodate them in the tribe. To progress to the highest level, they will likely have to understand all of the lore and traditions and lore intimately, but it seems that there should be multiple responsibility options.

 

Related to this is the membership of youth and adults. I know that some forms of MOS have different "ways" that youth and adult members take. It seems that this is mainly to prevent the indignity of 50 year old adults having to serve as shirtless torch-bearers, etc. While I agree with the results, I don't think that is best for us. How can the positions be shared without either group becoming artificially dominant? In other words, I think that youth and adults can become members without distinction between them. If more adults stay around and have a higher proportion in the high levels, so be it. But there shouldn't be any artificial restrictions on either group.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most welcome. I am quite satisfied with the way that the lore is fitting together so far. We have symbols that not only relate to our camp and historical figures specifically, but they are also scouting symbols metamorphized so nothing is really added as far as symbols go. It is very much our lore and history, which is hard to come by, even in a local society. The problems come in running the business. There are tasks that need to be organized and we need some objective structure. I am having trouble remembering how the levels and positions in MOS translate. How does one advance in positions and how are offices taken? Must one be a certain level to be elected head honcho for the season? Is there a head honcho for the season? Where is the authority and how does that relate to the average member?

 

So many questions...

[WAKWIB]

"The problems come in running the business. There are tasks that need to be organized and we need some objective structure. I am having trouble remembering how the levels and positions in MOS translate. How does one advance in positions and how are offices taken? Must one be a certain level to be elected head honcho for the season? Is there a head honcho for the season? Where is the authority and how does that relate to the average member?"

Adrianvs,

There are a lot of questions to consider, and I suppose if you're starting from scratch, there is no exact right or wrong way. I'm not going to try and make MOS sound like the superior approach, although it has been very, very successful in retaining youth and adults, and it has had a significant impact on size and scope of our Scouting program in this area. It is very much camp-centered...very little activity throughout the rest of the year. During each session at camp we see well over 100 boys and adults combined enter the Tribe with some kind of Tribal activity occuring on about 5 nights of the session. It is very much adult led and staff performed, although both youth and adult campers can play a role as well, depending on their position of responsibility. Advancement occurs largely based on involvement in the Scouting program throughout the year. Camp staff moves up at a quicker pace. The main reason I am now a member of the Tribal Council now (an all adult group) is that I spent 6 summers as a youth on the camp staff. I worked my way up through the various positions and was selected by the Council of Chieftains to be on the TC. During our ceremonies, youth from both the troops and the staff perform many responsibilities. There are only two ranks--Brave and Warrior (Honorary Warrior if you enter as an adult}. For the youth the positions they can hold after becoming a Warrior are Firebuilder, Tom Tom Beater, Runner, Keeper of the Sacred Bundle, Shaman.

The Tribal Council elevates youth to these positions based on troop recommedations, or camp staff performance if the candidate is involved in that capacity.

Above the Tribal Council, who actually run the Tribe, there is the Council of Chieftains which act primarily as the Board of Directors. The Chief--the main head honcho if you will, is the Scout Executive of our BSA Council. He gets this position by default. Each year, someone from the volunteer ranks is appointed Presiding Chieftain for the year. This is generally an individual who has served many years in the rank and file of the districts or council. This is basically a figurehead position as far as the ceremonies go. The council of chieftains (comprised of those who have served as Presiding Chieftains). sets policy, initiates new program features, handles the finances etc. There is on-going communication between this council and the rest of the members, so those who what to make suggestions and provide information to ssist the chieftains in there decision-making.

 

Well, this may be too much, or not enough info. for you. The real success of Mic-O-Say is not in the structure. In fact, the outside observer (members also) could probably point to many flaws. It succeeds almost in spite of itself, due to the power of it's message and the committment it inspires. My advise, would be to find a model of organization that involves as many as possible in the ceremonies, and that keeps one interested in moving up the ladder of responsibility.

Whether you use an OA or MOS or whatever style of structure of operating, the message and ceremonies need to be taken seriously by all involved.

 

WAKWIB--AKA: Sachem Sunlit Valley

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Adrianvs]

Thanks, WAKWIB. Your posts have been helpful.

 

"It is very much camp-centered...very little activity throughout the rest of the year."

 

This is one of the reasons that I have been referring to MOS. Our program is to fill the same niche, if you will.

 

 

"It succeeds almost in spite of itself, due to the power of it's message and the committment it inspires. My advise, would be to find a model of organization that involves as many as possible in the ceremonies, and that keeps one interested in moving up the ladder of responsibility."

 

Given that we are not really an honor society and all campers are invited to join the "tribe," we have the possibility for large induction ceremonies with many people involved. It seems inevitable (and preferable) that the other ceremonies must have fewer participants. As I've said before, we have the symbolic progression, relevance, and integration to keep the interest and convey the messages of each symbolic level. We want to integrate positions of responsibility (and avoid the OA dilemma), but have yet to decide how this can be done. It appears that the positions of responsibility are largely synonymous with the ceremonial levels in MOS, but his isn't entirely possible with our tribe.

 

I don't think that anything resembling the MOS model of organization will work for us, either. Our camp is one of two in our council. It is the smaller one and geographically within the corner of the council. It is even within a different tribal area and our chapter (and camp) have used quite different tribal outfitting for our OA ceremonies. The tribes of our area, the Fox and Sauk, and that of the council headquarters, the Sioux, were actually traditional enemies. While we don't have that sort of hostility, we do have quite a distance between us. The camp land isn't even owned by the council anymore. It is owned by a committee of volunteers who purchased it so that scout camp could continue there. Making the Scout Executive the head of the organization, even the symbolic head, would not be a good situation. I suspect that the position (like the title of Supreme Chief of the Fire in OA) was originally a gesture by the camp societies trying to recieve the full support of the BSA. I think that we can avoid that by keeping the organization camp-based and making it part of the camp program. We will not require much funding or finances, so will not collect dues or anything of the sort. The camp traditions and even facilities have been held in the possession of those who attend the camp and consider it a second home for quite a while. I see no reason that the tribal society should be any different.

 

Thanks again for your posts. They have not only provided new ideas, but have helped to emphasise certain points that were already present.

 

 

Klamachpin Elitehat

WWW

 

Founder of the Wau Ba La - hahaha, just kidding.

(This message has been edited by Adrianvs)

[red feather]

Membership in MOS is mostly dependant on age, scout rank, scouting participation and years summer camping. This ensures that the youth or adult has been exposed to MOS during the previous years as a camper and ensures that the scout has enough maturity to understand and appreciate memberships significance.

 

MOS does not collect dues from its members. One can make "self-denial" donations or become a member of the Dog Soldier Society by making a larger one time or more than one time donation.

 

Advancement through the paint stations after becoming warrior is a major draw for the older scouts to stay active and advance in MOS. Each higher paint station has more responsibilities and therefore higher honor. I have been exposed to both the Bartle and Geiger forms of MOS and both keep the scouts well into their late teens and early 20s. Staff at Geiger must be Eagle or so close they can smell it. There are some exceptions of course but Eagle is the requirement the the scouts see and strive for..just to be on staff.

 

yis

Adult Runner Tall White Buffalo Guard

brave '68

[mclaught]

I just wanted to add something to the posts regarding the Silver Tomahawk #80 lodge. When I was inducted back in (I think) '83 I was incredibly impressed. I had been going to Camp Eastman for 4 years and every year I watched the older Scouts get 'tapped' out and I wanted it SO bad. Unfortunately not long after my ordeal my family moved away and I (very long story here) dropped out of Scouting.

 

After I got back involved again a couple years later I immediately got involved in the OA. As I moved from job to job, and place to place for some reason I was never satisfied with the OA. The ceremonies just were not up to the level I remembered from #80. I had no idea at the time what MOS was, or that it was so much a part of #80. I just wanted our ceremonies to be like theirs.

 

Everytime one of the youth askes me about my ordeal (you know, how they did it the REALLY old days, lol) they never believe me when I tell them how my 'ordeal' was. They all think that it sounds WAY COOL and they want ours to be just like that. I then have the unfortunate job of explaining politics to them and how there is no way in the world an OA lodge would be allowed to do that stuff now, (except #80 who as I understand still does it just like I remember). Several of my officers want to do a road trip down to Camp Eastman one of these summer days and watch how things are done there. I kind of discourage it simply because I know that it will just cause grief for all of us later. There will be way too much of "well if they can do it why can't we"?

 

Oh well, at least I have my memories, even if the boys don't believe them.

 

Ted McLaughlin

Chapter Advisor - Minnehaha Falls Chapter

Tonkawampus Lodge #16

Minneapolis, MN

 

[dana_renner]

Mantuawarrior

I am new to this, I am in on the Mainland USA in a small council in Pennsylvania, and we have about 28 Venturing Crews, a lot of Boy Scouts and many of them are dual registered as Venturers, so a lot of them are in the OA, our OA lodge here is very active, But I personally think that the female Venturers are kind of left out in the cold, There is some interest among leaders here for a co-ed honor society, on the net there is a site dealing with Venturing Honor societies, one is the OT this was designed by some Sea Scouts back in 1995 then they were Sea Explorers but anyway they designed this organization it was very OA like except it is designed for co-ed participation, then there is the Corps of Discovery, very Lewis and Clark like organization , then we have the Member of the Year

but I am very interested in what I read about what you are doing in Guam, can you write back and give more information on this? Thanks

[OldGreyEagle]

Dana, where in PA are you?

[dana_renner]

Does anyone know anything about a HCS known as Firecrafters, and would that Idea be friendly to Co-ed Venturing.

[dana_renner]

Grey Eagle I am a scouter in the Chester County Council BSA I am a Venturing Roundtable Commissioner and I also do some Unit Commissioner tasks for a Venturing Crew 37 in Elverson, Pa. Are you familiar with Chester County?

[OldGreyEagle]

I live in Bethlehen, we go to the climbing gym in Reading alot called Reading Rocks, actually its in Wyomissing.

[WAKWIB]

For Firecrafter info. go to www.firecrafter.org. It is apparently active only in central Indiana. It appears to be a good mix of OA and MOS tradition. It may be very adaptable to a Venture environment.

 

BTW-Bethlehem Penn. is my dad's hometown. His father and his brothers all put in some time at the steel mill. Two of his brother's retired from there about twenty years ago.

[matuawarrior]

Dana,

 

What we are doing is taking elements of OA and MOS and adapting it to our local area.

 

We have kept the election procedure from OA but went back to the old OA quota. We have doubled the requirements from OA to make it, not harder, but challenging for all eligible Venturers.

 

Some of the requirements are:

 

Instead of First Class, the Venturers added must have earned the Ranger Award,

 

Serve two-years as a registered active Venturer,

 

Serve in a crew or district leadership position for one year,

 

have 30-days of camping or high adventure trek,

 

Serve on campstaff within the two years prior to eligibility,

 

must be ARC or American Heart Certified in CPR and remain current,

 

and receive Crew Advisors approval.

 

Now the young ladies that are working on this have added "No OA carry overs" meaning that the young scouts can not use their Previous eligibility requirements to OA to be carried over to our HCS. EVERYONE starts on a new slate.

 

We are closely mirroring the MOS structure to our three Honor Levels which is similar to the ancient Chamorro Class system. We are currently working on different trails to each ranking within the three Honor Levels. Adults may take a different trail than a Venturer and still rank among his/her peers. Transition to the next Honor Level is by ranking, tenure, and non-member vote.

 

We have localized it to the island's ancient Chamorro Culture. We have researched the ancient weapons: sling stone, spears, shields, and darts; clothing and money: grass skirts/loin cloths, turtle shells (of course we will have to use imitation shells).

 

One of the main duties of our HCS is to help the camp program during camporees and summer camp, similar to MOS. The other duties is to train leaders and camping skills to Venturers, Scouts, and Scouters. But the Main emphasis is to promote the 5 areas of the Venturing program and Outdoor activity among Venture Crews and Scout Troops, similar to OA.

 

Matua

[flyingember]

purcelce- I've had an email conversation with a Mannaseh founder. He was also a founder of the tribe of golden eagle. They basically mixed bartle and geiger together to rescue a council.

 

I'd like to know how the program is doing and if it's affecting membership. kevin@flyingember.com

 

Adrianvs-

Oh, and Silver Tomahawk is no longer OA. They split off sometime spring 2003. The council merged back around 1997 (I have a council strip for them at the 97 jamboree) the lodge merged and much discontent was in place. they resplit shortly after.

 

Now the lodge merged again due to national oa only sending one charter. It's black hawk lodge 67 I believe. Silver Tomahawk still exists from my emailings with a member who lives in arkansas and goes there as he can, but the council website has gone downhill and no info is up.

 

It's basically MOS now. the founder was Earl Ring back in the 50s/60s (a mos member), who also went on to found a tribe in western colorado (now mic-o-say lodge 541, which is pure oa)

 

In case you were wondering how it worked being MOS-OA, goto the link below.

 

Oh, and the chief scout executive is an honorary chief of Kansas City MOS. The last one, Jere Ratcliff, was a council exec and so was too. National is watching MOS like a hawk I'm sure, as it expands across the midwest. There's over 170 counties covered by a MOS program in six states. That's equal in space to most of New England if my math is correct. If MOS spreads into the areas of the country which is weak on scouting it'll catch like wildfire (North West Georgia Council, I'm looking at you, a scout shouldn't move and go through three troops in 6 months and only go camping once)

 

My detailed writeup.

http://www.flyingember.com/mic.html

 

I've had the guy who wroteup most of the stuff at usscouts.org comment on my writeup.

[msramsey]

I just came across this post and thought I'd give some first hand info on Silver Tomahawk Lodge 80. I'm a former Lodge Vice-Chief from Lodge 80 and havn't missed a year at Camp Eastman in almost 10 years. Basicly National OA decided to only allow one charter for our council and we were forced to Merge. It's not the first time I can remember it happening but it will probably be the last. In 1996 Lodge 80 was forced to Merge with Lodge 136 I forget the name or number but it only lasted for 2 years. The two lodges voted and were split in late 1997 and Silver Tomahawk was back in buisness again for 1998. This lasted until 2003 when national again forced a merger with lodge 136. Silver Tomahawk is now operating as a seperate program at camp eastman along side the OA lodge. The only real difference between Silver Tomahawk this year and before the merger is that we leave out the obligation and a couple other things that we adapted from OA brotherhood and ordeal ceramonies. OA cerimonies are now held on sunday and friday nights at camp and the Silver tomahawk keeps wendsday and thursday just like always.