Unhappy with troop leadership

[Fungi]

I would appreciate some feedback from you all regarding ongoing issues. My son and two of his friends joined troop "A", after choosing between the two local options.

 

It appeared to be a good fit, but now I am not so sure.

 

My son wants to continue with this troop as that is where his two best friends are members.

 

The Scoutmaster is very hands on, and maintains a tight control over every aspect. Even though they say it is scout led, it is only to the extent that they lead the way he wants them to.

 

My son is only mildly interested in camping. Once or twice a year is plenty for him, and the week long camp is too long for him. The troop pushes for every scout to go camping monthly, and the week-long Summer camp is basically mandatory. They say it isn't, but not so subtle pressure is constantly being applied to those that don't want to go.

 

They use the time as the means to accomplish a number of merit badges, and over a 5-7 year scouting career, they will all make Eagle.

 

My son prefers academics, and is now running into issues with merit badges. The Scoutmaster will only let them work on one or two at a time, and only with his approval of merit badge counselors. There is an opportunity for my son to use a local counselor that holds workshops on weekend days to make scheduling easier. This offers local scouts the option of using alternate methods for completing merit badges that don't require a week long camping trip.

 

The Scoutmaster has refused to allow it as it is "Classroom Learning". My son pointed out that the week long camp-out merit badges were also classroom learning with multiple scouts attending, but he muttered "that's different".

 

This is the latest in a number of issues that we have had to deal with. The Scoutmaster likes to say that all scouts are not the same, and he realizes that some have different priorities than others. In practice, he pushes the scouts to all complete the same requirements on the same schedule with no flexibility.

 

I am beyond frustrated, and there is no doubt in my mind that my son will not get a fair shake. My son sees this, but doesn't care as he is with his friends. I pointed out to him that he will care when they make Eagle and he will not for some obscure infraction that will apply only to him.

 

At a recent meeting my son got up and spoke to the Leadership Committee about his feelings about a new rule that was being implemented. The Scoutmaster's response to an 11 year old? If you don't like it join another troop! I did give the Scoutmaster a bad time about that statement, but I really don't think he realizes his lack of leadership.

 

If it was up to me, we would leave and go to the other troop but my son is not ready to make the change.

 

Can a scout join two troops? Be a member of each, and keep his current troop as more social and the other troop where he advances?

 

Any help appreciated!

 

Thanks

 

 

[Sentinel947]

Couple thoughts.

 

Your son will not enjoy Scouting if he doesn't like camping. It's a citizenship program through the outdoors and it's hard to avoid that. Plenty of other things in Scouts your son can do in addition to camping, but the camping will always be a huge part of the program.

 

Your son can ABSOLUTELY join another Troop so he can be treated properly. Rather then dual enroll, he should encourage his friends to transfer with him. (You should tell your story to his friends parents and encourage them as well.) However, if they won't leave, he absolutely can dual enroll if that is what he wants. Be aware however, that the pressure to camp will be found in almost any good Scout Troop. That's what a Scout Troop is for. To take kids camping, where they work as a team in the character school of the patrol.

 

Scoutmasters do not get to decide what merit badge counselors their Scouts work with. Period.

 

That being said, the Scoutmaster's job is to encourage his Scouts to camp and be a part of the Troop. Scouts go camping, that is the program.

 

To summarize, if your son is being bullied by the Scoutmaster, he needs to find a new unit. The Scoutmaster cannot limit where your son takes Merit Badges. Scoutmasters are coaches and mentors, not dictators.

 

However, I think your son's expectations for what Scouting is are not accurate with what Scouting is. If your son hates camping and other outdoor activities, he will not like Scouting, and if he does not attend those trips he will not advance.

 

Best of luck to you and your son.

 

Sentinel947

[TAHAWK]

This SM sounds much too controlling to offer a fun, successful experience. It is almost secondary that he is wrong about the Merit Badge process.

 

B.S.A.:

The unit leader and Scout should come to agreement as to who the counselor will be. Lacking agreement, the Scout must be allowed to work with the counselor of his choice.

 

 

 

 

 

[LeCastor]

As Scoutmaster, I encourage the Scouts in my Troop to camp at least once per month--that's what we do in Scouting. But not all Scouts are into that much anymore, I guess. Of course, we don't know the whole situation with your son's Troop other than what you've posted here. But it sounds to me that your son's Scoutmaster is too involved in the inner workings of the Troop rather than leaving it up to the Scouts and their Patrol Leaders. Perhaps you could have a chat with the SM and express your concerns? Or find another Troop that suits your son's interests? I agree that he might try to convince his friends to go with him if that is the deciding factor--friendship. Is he in the same Patrol as his friends? As I said in another thread, I stayed in the same Patrol and Troop until I was 18 because my best friends were there. It's really up to your son to decide what he wants.

[RememberSchiff]

So a Scoutmaster run, Eagle mill troop. Scout is prevented from experiencing non-camping, Scout activities. From my experience, by the time a scout matures and realizes his troop will not correct these flaws, he has turned 13 or 14 and leaves scouting all together to follow his interests. My read is that becoming Eagle is not your son's interest (at least right now), rather Dad's. This SM sees this and the friends and so has the upper hand.

 

You will not be able to fix the troop. Find another troop or activity. Explore other nearby troops or youth groups that have the activities your son likes and see if you can manage an invite. Say Troop B is going to the Air & Space Museum and needs at least 3 more scouts to attend, do you think you and your buddies would like to go? You would really be helping Troop B as otherwise they might have to cancel.

 

Suggest to your son that he move up the timetable and look at other activities inline with his interests. Some scout camps now have provisional day camps for scouts. Drop him off in the morning, pickup in the afternoon.

 

Though rare, your son can be a member of more than one troop. Divorced parents sometimes have this arrangement. Never seen it within the same council.

 

The monthly troop activity need not be camping. Some PLC's plan community service or a day outing instead. And then there are fundraisers. There is a tendency with control freak SM's (coaches too) to over-schedule and have attendance requirements in an attempt to prevent scout's from straying into the other activities in his world and leaving the herd, I mean troop. Totally wrong-headed.

 

Support your son's needs and interests. Keep it fun for both of you, these times will not come again.

 

My $0.02

[LanceEagle]

Fungi, I feel your pain.

 

I made the mistake of registering my sons with a troop whose SM saw himself as the second coming of Baden Powell and who indirectly imposed his own unique interpretations on rank advancement requirements.

 

Both of my sons compete in sports year round, so there were very few camping trips that did not conflict with games, so they were not able to make as many camping trips as they would have otherwise liked to.

 

They were very proactive with regard to advancement though and diligently worked on requirements, however, they were often held back by the SM refusing to grant a SM conference and subsequent BOR because, even though they had met the camping requirements for the rank, they had not met the SM’s own self-imposed, subjective, camping requirements.

 

I brought my concerns to the SM and then later to the Troop Committee and with no action finally went to Council. SM got a small slap on the wrist from Council and I then became public enemy number one within our Troop.

 

Despite this, my sons stayed with their original troop for some time because this was where there friends were. As my older son progressed though, it became evident that this troop would never be fair to him with regard to advancement given his involvement with sports; to the point that I could not see him earning Eagle within that troop.

 

We ultimately ended up transferring into a new troop. It was a tough adjustment and they did miss their friends from the old troop initially, but they made new friends and they’re now able to advance without any BS from a sanctimonious, self-righteous SM and his band of adult followers, who are oblivious to actual BSA guidelines and advancement requirements.

 

My advice to you would be to find a new troop or leave scouting altogether.

 

For the SM to say that you should look into other troops is a very harsh statement. He’s more concerned with serving his own agenda than he is in helping your son in any way.

 

If you and your son would like to try to stick it out with your current troop, you may want to try talking with the troop committee. Chances are that they’ll be of little help, but talking to them would be the first step towards addressing your concerns.

[Stosh]

I used to be part of a troop with a SM exactly like LanceEagle describes. The operative phrase is USED TO BE. One can only put up with just so much of this shenanigans before one decides anything is better than what one has. This SM (WB, Silver Beaver, etc.) has since been removed from Scouting. Too late for me, but just fine for the troop.

 

Stosh

[Fungi]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

Especially nice to know that my son should have final say on choice of counselors.

 

My son does want to make Eagle, but just not the way they want him to. I do feel that I am already public enemy #1 and my son in the number two slot.

 

I am more concerned that the SM will attempt to sabotage my son. Not out of spite, but more as a twisted effort to get him to conform.

 

Will probably end up having to leave the troop, but nice to know options and hear from others with more experience on troop politics.

[Sidney Porter]

Your son's 2 friends, do they all go to the same school? If yes I would think it will be eaiser for your son to find another troop since he will still be friends with them through school.

[st0ut717]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

Especially nice to know that my son should have final say on choice of counselors.

 

My son does want to make Eagle, but just not the way they want him to. I do feel that I am already public enemy #1 and my son in the number two slot.

 

I am more concerned that the SM will attempt to sabotage my son. Not out of spite, but more as a twisted effort to get him to conform.

 

Will probably end up having to leave the troop, but nice to know options and hear from others with more experience on troop politics.

He wants to make eagle but without summer camp or camping in general?

 

Camping is eagle required and eagle merit badges are not easy. they require significant effort on the part of the scout. My son has been working on Camping merit badge for 2 years and is almost there. He attends most of our camping events. How can he learn camp based stoves? lighting a camp stove in a classroom / meeting place is far differenct then lighting it (or not) or not being able to have a safe hot meal.

 

Knots are needed for camping. bear bags etc. without the need for experience in the wild this is a book excersice only. did youi learn knots yes. can you apply it in real file? not tested.

 

Cooking is eagle required and part of that is planing for meals for troop backpacking, hiking and camping for multiple days. How is he going to be able to plan without experience in the field?

 

I can go on and on.

 

 

yes the scout master is not correct. but i think you want more of a paper eagle program. boxes checked to the minimum specification.

 

 

 

[perdidochas]

I think I'm with most of the other replies. I do agree that the SM is not following the program put out by BSA, and is arbitrarily deciding a lot of things that aren't in his responsibilities. Advancement in Boy Scouts should be individual, not group. That said, I think scouts need to camp at least 5-6 times a year (troop should be camping 10-12 times per year). Scouts should go on at least two summer camps. I believe scouting and love of outdoors should be pretty much synonymous.

[Stosh]

Just an off the cuff kinda rhetorical non-judgmental question. What is the draw to Scouting if one really doesn't like the outdoors? I joined scouts because of that. Joined Civil Air Patrol because I like to fly, etc. I really don't understand what would draw someone to scouts if it wasn't for the outdoor program.

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

I would not dual register this scout. It just sets up a push-pull between SM's that will take the fun out of the game of scouting. I would encourage him to join another troop, simply because SMs are quite slow to change their leadership style. The boy should visit other troops and ask questions about what they do besides camping. Also, it's important to make sure you understand what the boy doesn't like about camping. Is there some bullying or hazing? Does he get homesick easily? Are there intimidating physical challenges? Does he not like to cook and clean-up for himself? These things may help the SM understand why the boy is leaving, and adjust the program in the future. If the boy is Eagle-bound he's not gonna get around the 20 required nights for camping merit badge, but not every scout is in it for the bling. He should do everything he can to become a first class scout. So he should pick a troop that will help him master first class skills.

[RememberSchiff]

What is the draw to Scouting if one really doesn't like the outdoors?

 

- Hang with your friends at troop meetings

- Get a break from less than happy home situations

- First exposure to cool, interesting activities - first aid, shooting,..

Today if I or my sons just wanted outdoors, Scouts would not be a top choice as there are school outing clubs, AMC, Outward Bound,...

[st0ut717]

@rememberschiff he said rhetorical !!!