Webelos-to-Scout Transition: How to Get a Troop Involved?

[Eagle94-A1]

How do you get a troop involved in the Webelos-to-Scout Transition?

 

OK, some of you may remember the stories about my pack's CO's troop when I could post as Eagle92. Last year there was some interaction with the pack in that they did invite the Webelos to a camp out and a meeting. But this year there has been nothing, absolutely NOTHING (emphasis). We've asked for den chiefs, and the ones we got were more like Cubs than Scouts. They have not attended the last 3 district and council camporees, which have Webelos can attend. And the last one they did attend, I had to beg them to invite Webelos. So den chiefs have not worked out, trying to get invited to things haven't worked out. How can we get them interested in the process?

 

I know the troop is losing scouts. One of my former Cubs transferred over a few months back, and another one will be transferring shortly. He was encouraged to stay with him until his SM Conference and Tenderfoot BOR, telling them what's happening and why he will be transferring.

 

Believe it or not, the CC, SM, and an ASM with my son's troop is concerned about that troop because the Scouts are transferring to us. Plus out of the three Webelos who will be Crossing Over next month, 2 have decided to come to our troop, and one wants to visit us and another troop before deciding. So none of the this years Crossover's are going to the CO's troop. And as I mentioned the leadership with my son's troop is concerned because we do not want a reputation for "stealing." We want them to have an active, successful program. But we are not goign to turn away any Scouts who want to join us.

[SeattlePioneer]

When I wanted to build closer relations with a troop as a Pack leader, I had the District Commissioner appoint me as the Unit Commissioner for the Troop. That way I had a good reason to visit troop commitytee meetings and activities and see what was going on and get to know troop leaders and the problems of the troop. That worked like a charm!

 

You could e-mail your District Commissioner with that request, or your District Executive.

 

You could also call or e-mail troopp leaders and asked to be invited to their troop committee meetings.

 

 

I think you are being very smart to be concerned about keeping a neighboring troop strong!

 

 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

SP,

 

I was assigned to them temporarily as their UC when the UC assigned to my pack and the troop passed away. Their meetings were on a bad nite for me, so I couldn't visit like I wanted to. The few times I did try to help, I was essentially told I don't what I'm talking about. So the unit leadership and the parents still with the unit (don't ask) don't really want me around.

 

But I do think I will encourage the CM and the 4th grade WDL to contact the troop to try and get them involved. Hopefully they won't have to beg to be invited to things.

 

[Sidney Porter]

So let me get this straight.

CO A = Pack A and Troop A

CO B = Troop B

 

You are involved with Pack A and Troop B? Your concern is that Troop A doesn't do much to support Pack A? Assuming that Troop B is a viable alternative I would not put too much effort into getting Troop A up to speed.

[Stosh]

I am led to believe that Eagle94's experience is more common than Seattle's. I think Eagle's position of being with the Pack then UC might appear at first to be an end-around and he was cut off at the pass. No matter how positive and productive the intention might have been, politics seems to always win out in the end.

 

I do think it works better the other way around if one can manage it. I was ASM of a troop that went back to the Pack and took on WDL and brought the boys through the transition. Obviously as an ASM I did have a bit of street cred whereas a Pack leader might not get that kind of traction in the troop.

 

I would think that any WDL that made overtures to a troop would at least make a token gesture to the potential new boys. Even that doesn't always wash.

 

Knowing what I know about the competition between troops and being a new troop in a new area, I have to beat the bushes to even be noticed, and it does pay off.

 

On the other hand, I have also invited Web II boys to events and had their leadership been so obnoxious that I preferred they go to a different troop with their boys. Some of the boys did come anyway but the majority of the WD went with the WDL to a troop were the SM and WDL were best buddies. Welcome to the world of BSA Politics.

 

Stosh

[Eagle94-A1]

Sidney,

 

Correct, I am with Pack A and Troop B. There is also a Pack B, which everyone at CO B keeps trying to get me to transfer to but understand why I don't.

 

Pack and Troop B have a great relationship, CM and WDL are ASMs with the troop. While the MCs may be different, the CC is the same person and is active. There have been several instances of Cubs doing activities with us.

 

As for trying to help Troop A out, there several reasons for that. One reason is that I helped start that unit and have assisted them through the years. In fact the troop was the reason why we looked at the pack first. So seeing the troop flourish is a personal reason. I hate things I worked hard on to fail.

 

Another reason is that the troop has more members of the CO in it than the pack, and for whatever reason, the pack is suffering some, i.e. CO used to give some funding to help the pack, we lost access to several rooms that were used by dens, etc. It seems as if once it was known that 2 of the Cubs were going to a different troop, the pack's relationship with the CO has deteriorated some.

 

Finally, in a close knit district like mine, sometimes "bad blood" develops, for whatever reasons, and it IS (emphasis) detrimental to all involved. And folks in my neck of the woods have long memories (we still have a troop that refuses to got to the local summer camp b/c the then SM's son WILLING (emphasis and I saw the Scout immediately after it was done witht he smile on his face) had his head shaved and SM dad was not happy). We got enough challenges with such a young troop that we don't need any intertroop drama. And that is what the leaders want to avoid.

 

Forgot to mention, there is already some "bad blood" as the CM/ASM of Pack and Troop B was once a leader with Pack A. When his pastor asked him to start Pack B, 1/2 the Cubs in Pack A did leave as a result. The SM of Troop A was the CM at the time, and accused him of "stealing" scouts. And yes there was drama.

 

Stosh,

Yep, I had to beg the troop to invite Webelos on a camp out with them when my oldest was a Webelos (I wanted my old den to get to know them). Also I and the Webeloree Chief had to beg them to staff the Webeloree, which is a big recruiting tool as the Webelos gets to see the various troops in the district.

[fred johnson]

... in a close knit district like mine' date=' sometimes "bad blood" develops ... [/quote']

 

​Most bad blood I've seen in our district involves recruitment. With fewer cubs, it's do or die. Grudges do develop. And IMHO, legitimate grudges. I've seen good leaders say bad things about generally good leaders in other units because it positions themselves better.

 

I'm in a similar situation to the original poster.

 

CO A = Pack A & Troop A

CO B = Pack B

CO C = Pack C & Troop C

CO D = Troop D

 

Troop C recruits heavy from pack A. Pack B feeds troop A. Troop D scavenges. Troop C ignores Pack C because the kids come from a different area. It's just a mess.

 

As a COR, I keep trying to get the our troop and pack to work together. And as a COR, I BELIEVE I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO EXPECT THE PACK LEADERS AND TROOP LEADERS UNDER OUR CO TO WORK TOGETHER. Yet, I hear leaders say things that are just effectively slanderous for recruitment's sake. Or I'll hear whispers even during committee meetings of "but you're going to come join Troop C right?" The Troop C leader who is a Pack A den leader feels the need to subvert other leaders so their troop can benefit.

 

This whole Webelos recruitment / transition thing just sucks. Period. I've never seen anything that creates more hard feelings and grudges in my whole life. It escalates minor issues and just adds stress.

[Stosh]

I think a lot of the problem arises in the territorialism of a lot of CO's. They have a Cub program that flows into Boy Scouts. Well and good except not every boys wants what their troop has to offer. So what does he do? He goes shopping. GASP! Little traitor!!!

 

Well, any boy can go to any troop they wish. End of discussion. I run a boy-led program and not all boys want that. They want adults to provide a program because that's what they think they've paid for, like a sports team or YMCA membership, etc.

 

I have one of my charter boys announce to me his mom is moving and he's going to have to quit the troop. Well, my job is to find him another troop in the area he is moving to. ("Take Care of Your Boys!") I feel bad he's moving, but I'd feel worse if he quit scouting.

 

When we were first starting out, another nearby troop offered to have our troop come with them to summer camp so they would have larger numbers to associate with. The camp was the council camp, but my boys decided on another program that better met their needs and politely declined their generosity.

 

I have seen troops compete for new Cubs and take on 20 new boys only to lose all but one or two. Instead of helping the boys find a troop that best suits them, they only kept score. Well the 18-19 boys that weren't satisfied all just quit scouts. It was a real bummer to see that happening year after year.

 

Too often the process is seen as a competition, not an evaluation process to see that each boy gets the best opportunity for scouting.

 

Stosh

 

[perdidochas]

I'm with Stosh. The boys should go to the troop they like. Ideally, it would be the one with the same CO as their pack. My bet is, most of the time it is.

[fred johnson]

...

I have seen troops compete for new Cubs and take on 20 new boys only to lose all but one or two. Instead of helping the boys find a troop that best suits them, they only kept score. Well the 18-19 boys that weren't satisfied all just quit scouts. It was a real bummer to see that happening year after year.

 

Too often the process is seen as a competition, not an evaluation process to see that each boy gets the best opportunity for scouting.

 

Of course the "ideal" is great. Scout find a unit they want to be in. But the ideal is not the reality.

 

- Too much self interest by scouts, parents, den leaders and troops. It corrupts and misrepresents. It hides real choice. For my last Webelos den, I've coordinated visits and activities with two troops. I've listed all the other local troops and parents/scouts can all go visit any they want. But I'm only coordinating visits and activities with two. Guess what, no one has cared to visit the others. So much for "ideal" and "choice". And I'm no different than any other den leader. If anything, coordinating with two has been more than most den leaders I know.

 

- Find the troop that best suits your needs? From what I've seen, unless you are a long time scouter, you don't know what you really need. And even then, once you are in the troop, you want your kids to continue there because it's easier and a point of pride. So much for "ideal".

 

- In my experience, it has been much more effective to work from within and help things improve. Shopping and promoting a choice escalates minor dissatisfaction to critical "decision points" that then get broadcast and cemented in stone instead of being worked through and solved.

 

- The concept of troop shopping is a bad idea. Period. Switch anytime you want. But promoting shopping for a troop is a bad idea.

 

- One of the best recruiting troops locally recruits as Stosh commented. They get 20 new boys. They regularily lose half to all of them. The troop looks great, but it's not fun and from what I've seen the adults demean the scouts. So much for great recruitment. Who benefited?

 

It's a hot button topic for me. I think BSA has a bad program design in this concept.

 

=================

 

As for the original poster, the only troop that should be injecting itself into the pack's program is the troop under the same CO. Sure the other troops can advertise and recruit, but actively involving and supporting the pack's activities is the business of the same CO troop. Period. Kids can switch to any unit at any time. But a "CO" offers scouting programs. The units should cooperate and support each other.

[scoutergipper]

I recruit hard, and by that I mean I invite Webelos from all over my area to visit our Troop, to camp with our Troop and to join our Troop. And I tell every Webelos and every Webelos Parent: we'd love to have you in our Troop, but the only important thing to me is that you stay in Scouting regardless of what Troop you join. We offer Cross Over ceremonies to any Pack that wants one, regardless of where their Webelos are going.

 

I wish Eagle94-A1 was in my area! I have a home for his Cubs

[Stosh]

Sorry, Fred, but I kinda disagree with not being able to shop around and find a troop that best suits the new scout right away instead of having to wait and find out that it's not what they want/need. By then they are disillusioned in the program and simply quit assuming that all troops operate the same way. Why would they not think this, they have had no experience in knowing otherwise.

 

Blind loyalty to the CO's troop isn't all that beneficial to the boys unless one simply believes that one-size-fits-all. And if it doesn't fit, quit.

 

Yes, I run a boy-led program and when my boys promote the troop, they always emphasize that if you join, you are expected to roll up your sleeves and work along with the rest of the boys. This is not a good fit for a boy that wants to be catered to by adults and have his Eagle handed to him after 6-7 years down the road. I know that my troop won't work for everyone, why would I expect everyone to want to join?

 

Stosh

[Eagle94-A1]

I have to agree with Stosh, if you wait any period of time before transferring, disillusionment occurs and they quit. While I waited 6 months before transferring to a new troop way back in the day, I knew about my cousins' troop, and attended some functions before transferring.

 

But out of my Oldest son's Webelos Den, 1 Scout quit within 3 monthsof joining; 1 who was a camping addict quit within 4 months of joining; and 1 transferred, and that was only because dad was a scout and knew his old ASM was now SM of the troop the son joined.

 

 

In retrospect, I'm wondering if I am allowing loyalty to CO A, sentamentality with helping Troop A get started, and the discussion among Troop B's leaders not wanting to "steal" Scouts affect my concerns in regards to Troop A. Considering that the three Scouts I recruited for them at a Spring Round Up had quit before Fall started, and out of the 5 Webelos who crossed over last December, only 2 are with the troop still (one has commented that he will be transferring after his Tenderfoot BOR), maybe not having any involvement is a good thing if all we will be doing is losing Scouts.