"Dual Citizenship" or Participating in Two Wings of the Movement

[LeCastor]

Deep down I know we are all in this whole Scouting thing for the youth. However, as we have seen, politics and religion tend to divide us.

 

So with that, I ask you this:

 

Is there any reason why we, as Scouters, couldn't be active in, say, the BSA and the BPSA? Or GSUSA and AHG?

 

Discuss.

[Stosh]

Theoretically I don't see a reason why an individual wouldn't be able to participate in two or more if they have the time. Then again, does the group want the individual? That's not going to get addressed on this forum. Even though I have 5 daughters I don't see GUSA or AHG getting all that excited about my application.

 

Stosh

[duckfoot]

Not much to discuss, you could be a member of however many organizations you want. Time wise however...

[st0ut717]

Time I do a lot supporting my son and troop . Committee member and adult leader at meeting and camps I fall into CM /ASM my daughter is in Girl Scouts as well mom takes care of that

[LeCastor]

I guess what I was getting at is this: We all want to give Scouting to the youth. But some of us can see the strengths and weaknesses in one or more of the different "sects" of our Movement. The BSA has the infrastructure and the name recognition, whereas I think BPSA has the "traditional" thing going for them. We who yearn for the days when the Patrol really was the fundamental building block of Scouting might find it easier to get going in a back-to-basics org like BPSA rather than fight with BSA guidelines that may or may not be holding us back... That's the kind of discussion I'm looking for. I think Kudu was approached by Trail Life USA to design an IOLS-type course and he's a BSA member. He's reaching across the as isle, so to speak. Seems to me there was a relatively new forum member who was in BSA and BPSA. But as several have mentioned, it's all a matter of the amount of time you can commit to one or two organizations...

[st0ut717]

Bottom line I am in scouting because my son wants to be a Boy Scout. He has a short term goal for eagle and then military either enlisted or ROTC. (grantd he is 12 but he hasnt deviated and the choices he makes all go in that direction.).

 

If i exposed him to BPSA or traillife he would say. OK how does this help me make my goal ?

 

 

[Arefbee-202]

I am looking for some knowledge and this seems a good place to start. I see that AHG is first Christian and I assume means all other religions are excluded (Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, and Wicca to name a random few).

Does BPSA follow the same concept in being "traditional'?

Was the BSA exclusive to begin with? It does not appear to have been from what little I have read but I could be missing something.

 

(I realize I am stepping into a hot topic for my second post - and I am doing it as respectfully as I can)

 

From what I have seen so far, the new groups are reactions to dissatisfaction with the status quo; if a change is needed it should probably happen from within.

[Torchwood]

BPSA has no religious restrictions- you can believe in whatever you like, or nothing at all. They also have no gender or sexual orientation restrictions. boys and girls from age 5 up are welcome.

 

B-P's original program had no real religious restrictions that I know of either, and Scouting in other countries does seem much more relaxed on the subject than here.

[LeCastor]

 

From what I have seen so far, the new groups are reactions to dissatisfaction with the status quo; if a change is needed it should probably happen from within.

 

RFB, you aren't the first to suggest this.

 

"Traditional" Scouting refers not to religion, per se, but to outdoors skills and a focus on BP's original plans for the Scouting Movement. All that jazz in the 1970s--the "Improved Scouting" debacle--turned a lot of people off the BSA. The same thing was happening in the UK and there were some splinter groups. The BPSA in the US is a relatively new organization:

 

http://bpsa-us.org/

 

There are no religious restrictions.

 

Trail Life USA and American Heritage Girls, though, are Christian-based groups. I have to admit, however, that I know very little about these last two.

[duckfoot]

We who yearn for the days when the Patrol really was the fundamental building block of Scouting might find it easier to get going in a back-to-basics org like BPSA rather than fight with BSA guidelines that may or may not be holding us back...

 

Locally, your unit runs the way the Unit Leaders guide the Scouts. Scoutmaster wants a robust outdoor program? He's going to mentor his Boy Leaders that way. Scoutmaster wants to run the Troop? He's going to guide the Boys to his path.

[fred johnson]

BPSA ... Bio-Process Systems Alliance? http://www.bpsalliance.org/ Bicycle Products Supplier Association? http://bpsa.org/ British Pharmaceutical Students Association?

 

duckfoot has it right. ....

 

======================

 

As for dual membership, we "the adult leaders" could be registered in both. But when we work with a specific set of scouts, we need to create an organization up front that is either BSA or BPSA. Then, follow those rules and stick with it.

 

It would only be WRONG to run it as a BPSA organization and then use the BSA advancement program or eventually credit a scout with earning the BSA Eagle scout rank. You want a scout to earn Eagle, he should be in a BSA organization. You want him to experience some "traditional" program that you can't do as a BSA leader, then have him in a different organization.

[fred johnson]

The one thing that I really like out of BPSA is that all their documents are available online as PDF files. That's how it should be.

 

We are currently debating in the pack whether to stop buying Cub Scout handbooks: tiger, wolf, bear, etc. Sadly, they are rarely used these days. Very similar for the Boy Scout handbook. The Boy Scout handbook used to be a source of all knowledge. Now, it seems shallow and like a comic book. My sons 2005 Boy Scout handbook seemed much more day-to-day usable than the current handbook. The current one "looks great", but it is far less useful.

 

It's actually what I like about the older scout books. They were much more reference and learning oriented. The current one is introduction and fluff.

[LeCastor]

 

It would only be WRONG to run it as a BPSA organization and then use the BSA advancement program or eventually credit a scout with earning the BSA Eagle scout rank. You want a scout to earn Eagle, he should be in a BSA organization. You want him to experience some "traditional" program that you can't do as a BSA leader, then have him in a different organization.

 

Hey, Fred! Just to be clear, I never meant to suggest that I would consider doing this. My question was related to Scouters and affiliation with BSA and BPSA.

 

As for oft-used "adult leaders" I tend to focus more on "adult mentors" and "adult guides".

[resqman]

I know an ASM who was very involved with the BSA troop. He had two sons who were active and eventually both earned the rank of Eagle. He had two younger children, one son and one daughter. He was a den leader and Cubmaster for his younger son.

 

He and his wife joined/formed a Girl Scout troop. Girl Scouts do not like men in the organization. He took all the GS training he could so that he would know the GS way of doing things. He hoped it would show that he was serious about following the GS methods and aims and not just running a female BSA troop. There was a third adult leader for the GS troop he was involved with. She did not really want him around and it created a bunch of drama.

 

Not sure if they ever completely worked out all the drama. He wanted his daughter to have the best scouting experience he could provide for her since he had been so involved for his sons. The wife/mother had been actively involved with the BSA troop and worked part-time at the BSA council office. She was dual enrolled in both BSA and GSUSA.

 

I can see where parents who have both gender children would want to be dual enrolled to help scouting provide a quality program.

 

[fred johnson]

Hey, Fred! Just to be clear, I never meant to suggest that I would consider doing this. My question was related to Scouters and affiliation with BSA and BPSA.

 

As for oft-used "adult leaders" I tend to focus more on "adult mentors" and "adult guides".

 

LeCastor ... I know. I probably should not have made it bold red. Another person's comments trigger one of my main thoughts. If you are in BPSA and achieve everything, you still can't claim Eagle. It's Eagle that gets the attention, scholarships and military rank advancement. I can see people wanting to mix and match because of that. The George Washington award may be just as good, but it's completely unknown except as a book award or a George Washington Carver award.

 

I was just thinking it's fine to be in either or both. We just can't make it a cafeteria scouting program where we pick and choose what we want. We can be leaders in both, but when working for one ... you are in that one.

 

...............

 

"Adult leaders" ... Fully hugely agreed. I also hate the terms Scoutmaster and Cubmaster. Guide, advisor, coach or mentor seems to better describe the role. IMHO, "master" and "leader" derails the intent before learning the details.