No religious affiliation

[ctgolfer]

Hi, I am new to this board, joined today so I could ask for some advice. First some background.

 

I am a leader in our Cub Scout pack and my son is now a Bear. Our family is not religious at all and are not practicing in any particular religion. I was "raised" Lutheran, my wife was raised Catholic and the kids we baptized the same, but otherwise our family has never actively practiced Catholicism or any other organized religion. My wife has a strong faith in God, just doesn't believe in the dogma of organized religion. I considered myself agnostic for a time when I was younger, but have come to believe in a higher power as I have gotten older, although I have no specific belief of what that higher power may be. We have discussed our beliefs with our children but have left it up to them to make their own choices, but lets face it, pre-teen kids rarely develop their own beliefs on the subject of God and religion and usually just parrot what their parents believe (or don't believe). As such, our kids have or at least express the same thoughts on God and religion. Really, the only expression of belief, reverence, and duty to God or higher power that we we ask of them is to respect and care for what has been created by God (themselves, other people, nature, etc.). Essentially the Golden Rule which I think most religions essentially boil down to once you get rid of all the dogma.

 

Anyway, for my specific question, we are working on the Bear requirements which includes earning your religious emblem, but since we don't consider ourselves affiliated with a particular religion, I'm a bit at a loss on how to fulfill this requirement. And as we move onto Weblos and eventually Boy Scouts, I know the requirements get more stringent and complex in the demonstration of faith. Although the BSA is non-denominational and only technically requires that member have faith in God or a higher power, it seems most of the associated requirements are still very focused on things you can do within your religious organization. I firmly believe that faith and religion are two entirely separate things (or at least can be), that you do not have to subscribe or be a part of a religion to have faith.

 

So I was wondering if there is anyone out there who has or has worked with someone in scouting with similar beliefs, and has some advice how to fulfill the various religious/faith based requirements in Cub and Boy Scouts.

 

Thanks!

[ScoutNut]

Anyway' date=' for my specific question, we are working on the Bear requirements which includes earning your religious emblem, but since we don't consider ourselves affiliated with a particular religion, I'm a bit at a loss on how to fulfill this requirement.[/quote']

 

It is NOT a Bear requirement to earn a religious emblem.

 

It is an OPTION to earn it.

 

Bears are REQUIRED to complete only 1 of the 2 achievements under the God section. I suggest you complete Achievement 1 - Ways We Worship. It specifically mentions "home" as a "religious community" for the purpose of the achievement.

 

Earning religious emblems is not required at any Cub level, Tiger/Wolf/Bear/Webelos. At all levels there are alternatives to earning a religious emblem.

 

What did your son do for the Tiger, and Wolf requirements?

 

[scoutergipper]

And as we move onto Weblos and eventually Boy Scouts' date=' I know the requirements get more stringent and complex in the demonstration of faith. Although the BSA is non-denominational and only technically requires that member have faith in God or a higher power, it seems most of the associated requirements are still very focused on things you can do within your religious organization. [/quote']

 

Aside from being Reverent (and we've had some interesting threads on what that means recently), there are no "stringent and complex" requirements in Boy Scouts with regard to demonstrations of faith, at least under the current program. A Scout who professes a believe in a higher power of any kind will have no problem. I've had Buddhist Eagle Scouts in my Troop.

 

As ScoutNut indicates above, I think you may have mis-read the program a bit.

 

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forums!

 

The short answer to your broader question: scouters have supported youth like your son at every level of scouting. They don't have to earn a religious emblem. They do have to develop an age-appropriate understanding of duty to God.

 

Most boys aren't rigorous theologians, but they benefit from talking to their families about religious life. And then attending in their friends' religious activities from time to time. And then coming back and talking to their families (and later their scoutmasters or other caring adults) about it.

 

This is the culture that scouting is trying to inculcate.

[King Ding Dong]

I concur with all my friends above.

 

You will be fine as far as National BSA is concerned but things can get murky on a more local level. A lot depends on the organization that charters your unit. If it is a religious institution they do have the authority to impose standards on the members of the unit. Most do not but there are some that have expectations of their members and sometimes leaders do try and mandate earning the religious emblem. On this board we have heard many stories of such actions and even specific religious requirements that come down from the Council level though that seems to be rare.

 

It is best to have a talk with a representative of your Chartered Organization and make sure you both are comfortable with the situation. Start with the Cubmaster and you can move up the chain if necessary. Committee Chair, Chartered Organization Representative and Institutional Head at the top.

 

A more specific answer to your question. I also do not currently belong to any organized religious institution and have two sons in the program. We have always followed the alternate requirements to the religious emblem. You are your son's religious leader and have authority over all religious matters not some Den Leader.

 

You just need to be aware that if you or your son's ever start declaring they are an atheist or have no belief in a higher power you may be asked to find another organization to spend your free time with.

 

Welcome and enjoy your time here. If you are not having fun you are doing something wrong.

 

[ctgolfer]

Thanks for the insight. Yes, I did read it wrong, I did not realize you only had to complete 12 of the 24 requirements for Bear rank (including one of requirement 1 or 2). Requirement 1 is straight forward enough for us to complete.

 

I guess I need to read forward on Weblos and Boy Scout requirements more closely. My first impression was it gets more religion-centric as we continue, but from the sound of it here there is room and alternatives for those not practicing a specific religion like us. Being in the northeast and chartered out of our public school PTA, I don't expect there will be any local level expectations that we can't achieve. Thanks again for the input!

[King Ding Dong]

I wouldn't describe it as more religion-centric, just a bit more age appropriate as the boys grow.

 

I am President of a midwest public school PTO and while religion friendly we take a very hands off approach to the religious requirements and leave those requirements to the family to fulfill. I suspect you will find the same.

[SeattlePioneer]

For purposes of Cub Scouting I explain the "duty to god" as

 

1. Respecting the family's religious beliefs or practices

 

2. Respecting the religious beliefs of other families.

 

 

And in Cub Scouts, parents sign off on achievements/requirements. Parents are free to decide how and when such achievements are completed.

 

 

And frankly, if parents decided that one or more Cub Scout achievements were inappropriate or burdensome, I'd be perfectly OK with them deciding to bypass such achievements.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Cub Scouts is about framing a useful family program that can be used to raise a family. But that family program belong to the family and parents,

[Stosh]

As a person in ctgolfer's situation, I do not see duty to God as respecting other's beliefs. To me that's what being reverent means. Duty to God is a lot more than just respecting others.

 

Stosh

[SSScout]

As a Scout Chaplain in one of my other lives (!), I have had similar conversations. I have had to disabuse folks of the opinion that BSA is a "Christian" organization. I have had to remind folks that , while a "religious" organization (read just about anything BSA publishes, esp. the Declaration of Relgious Principle on the back of the application), it is not of one, specific, faith. The various awards that a boy may earn are each and everyone designed by , awarded by and specific to that faith. They are NOT BSA awards, but the BSA says you may wear the award on your uniform.

That said, I also remind folks that it is the duty (realized or not) of every parent to give the child a belief to either accept or reject and rebel against. This happens whether the parent is aware of it or not. A devoutly athiestic parent may end up with a cloistered nun for a daughter.

 

Everyone before has given good counsel. A scout's Duty to God is his alone, no one else , ultimately, can say what that is. Everything else is "opinion".

 

From "Fruits of Solitude" by William Penn: ""522. It is a sad Reflection, that many Men hardly have any Religion at all; and most Men have none of their own: For that which is the Religion of their Education, and not of their Judgment, is the Religion of Another, and not Theirs.""

 

Your boys must, as you have intimated, find their own way to God, or not. It is certainly human to listen to those that have gone before in order to benefit from previous experience and thus not make the same mistakes (for the same reasons?). It is unfortunate that we humans have all too often INSISTED that our way be your way, "or else". We continue to make that same mistake in not allowing God to make the judgements in those things that are his to make.

 

From the short information you have given us, I think you are well on your way to giving your kids something very worthy of their acceptance. Or rejection. " Faith shopping" might even be included in the Tiger "Go See" eventually, who knows? Good Scouting to you!

[SSScout]

Thomas Jefferson: ~~ Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom , enacted 1789. ~~

I. Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishment or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was his Almighty power to do . . .

 

 

II. Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

 

 

III. And though we well know that this assembly elected by the people for the ordinary purposes of legislation only, have no power to restrain the act of succeeding assemblies, constituted with powers equal to our own, and that therefore to declare this act to be irrevocable would be of no effect in law; yet we are free to declare, and do declare, that the rights hereby asserted are of the natural rights of mankind, and that if any act shall be hereafter passed to repeal the present, or to narrow its operation, such as would be an infringement of natural right.

 

 

This was Jefferson's "practice" for the First Amendment to the US Constitution. Has anything changed?