newscouter3 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This is my third year in scouts. Our pack does not collect dues. We try to do fundraisers, however doesn't always come through. When we do fundraisers the money will go towards pack trailer, the derby tracks, and what not. And we always paid for the Belt loops/pins. However this year we have decided to have the parents pay for them their self. How do I break it to them? We can do den fundraising but I know all boys won't attend and I'm not going to have my boy working to raise money to pay for another kids Belt loops. Now we earn a lot of these. Because we go camping once a month and we are always working on them. So now that I have rambled on, what do you think I should do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Be honest and upfront with the parents. Simply put, the Pack did not make purchasing belt-loops a priority. If parents have problems with that, maybe their service on the Pack committee could help find some resolution. ...We can do den fundraising but I know all boys won't attend and I'm not going to have my boy working to raise money to pay for another kids Belt loops. ... Let's challenge your thinking there just a little. Have you asked your son if he would mind working a fundraiser so everyone could get the loops that they actually earned even if his buddy maybe didn't work as hard ? A scout is helpful, after all. And we're talking about decorations here. I would ask the boys in the den how important they think it is to "bling out" their belts? Or, are they just as proud knowing they've done some cool stuff. Explain the cost of a belt loop vs. a slice of pizza. Would they all pitch in on a fundraiser? Or, would they rather go on a campout? Or do they want to leave it up to each boy to purchase the loops that he earned? (Obviously you wouldn't hand loops out at a pack meeting in that case, you'd just recognize who earned them. You'd help order for the kids who want to buy them discreetly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fehler Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Belt loops are going away in May. Announce that this is a "transition period", and stop handing the old ones out. When the new ones roll out next September, announce an "award fee" to cover the new program (since every boy at every level will earn at least 7). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKdenldr Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Have the boys vote as a den. If they want them, have the parents pay for them either before the pack meeting or before the camping trip where you earn them (just include them in your activity fee -- another $2 will not be noticed on a weekend event.) I found the belt loops lost their attraction as the boys got into Webelos, but the concept that these are going away might mean that the boys will want them even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Is your committee using the Unit budget plan? If not, start. You need to know at the beginning of the year what the Pack expenses will be (including awards and each outing/event) and identify where the funds will come from. If fundraisers are not successful, you will need to charge annual dues. There is no free lunch, especially when it comes to the BSA. Parents will understand this if you keep it simple. If the money doesn't come in, something's gotta go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Another point you can use is the sports and academic program is an optional add on program and is not central to advancement program. We don't budget for them, but it helps that the scout shop just moved to our neighboorhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Gotta love the "I'm not going to have my kid fundraise for his buddies." Please don't join my troop when your boys is older. He won't last very long. None of my boys got prizes for their participation in Popcorn this year, but one boy sold +$2,500 and got an IPod from the council. The patrol will be getting a monetary sum they can decide on for patrol equipment, activities, etc. The troop will retain some of the funds for awards, rank patches, leader fees, troop flag purchase this year, etc. Once the boys decide on those things, those funds will be released as well. By the way, the individual fundraising totals did not include any patrol show and sell events that everyone showed up for. No one mentioned anything about any ISA's or the fact that someone was or wasn't holding up their end of the deal. I'm thinking the boy with the least amount of individual sales was somewhere in the $3-400 range. Sometimes the "I'm not going to have my kid fundraise...." parent is doing nothing more than a teaching moment for their boy to be selfish and self-centered. Like I said, he won't last very long in a troop working on servant leadership development. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Porter Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 If you don't collect dues and the pack doesn't like to do fundraisers how has the belt loops been paid for in the past? Was someone in the pack paying for them out of their pocket or did the pack have cash in the bank and that cash is gone? I assume that cash either came out of dues or fund raising before the current scouts. If the fund raising is planned for capital investment (trailer, track etc) then you have to have sues in sufficient amount to cover the annual day to day opperations or the parent pays as they earn achievements. I think you could find a middle ground increase the cost of the of the camping and pay for loops earned while camping but not on their own. You would need to decide what you want to do with the den's earning loops. Personally I have always questioned the cost / value of the loops for the amount of work required. They don't fit well with overall program (IMHO). We worked on a lot of them in Tiger. But for Wolf and Bear any excess time was spent on arrow points. In Webelos it is on the achievments. Where the points or achivements overlap they pick up some loops but it was not the focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 No one mentioned anything about any ISA's or the fact that someone was or wasn't holding up their end of the deal. I'm thinking the boy with the least amount of individual sales was somewhere in the $3-400 range. I understand your argument (and Q's before you) and for the most part I agree with all of it. However, I think there's a difference between some people not working as hard and some not working at all. The difference describes the line between servant leadership and servitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I've been in a pack where parent paid for special advancements (belt loops, pins, etc) and another where they did not. I can't say which I prefer. Collecting extra $$ from parents is more work and discourages official recognition. Pack paying has a few families more than doubling the annual advancement budget without doing any more work than other kids. It's just they are claiming more advancements. We have one family that each year has incurred at least $50 per kid for belt loops and pins ... EACH YEAR. When most dens (except Webelos) just have rank advancements, that is a huge imbalance. It is a real financial hit. 25 academic plus 31 sports ... times ... belt loop plus pin ... at $1.89 each. $211 total. If every kid pursued them, we would need to more than double our annual dues. I'd be okay with parents paying, but it is a lot more work for pack leaders to track the $$$. ======================== What I'd rather see is academic and sports awards be handed out at the den meetings. Our pack meetings are overwhelmed now with advancements. I'd like to see it shortened somehow. Not sure how, but it should be. We have at least 15 min of awards each meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonG172 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Why would you not collect dues in order to pay for recognition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Why would you not collect dues in order to pay for recognition? Depends on what the market will tolerate, no? We collected $40 dues in our pack to cover charter renewal, boy's life and insurance. If I'd asked for another $40 or more in dues to cover recognition and the like we'd have had no scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisos Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 We have provided belt loops when they were earned at a den/pack activity, but if a boy earns one on his own, we just have the parents pick it up for him at the scout shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Announce that the Pack Committee includes ALL parents. Announce that "The Work is done and the Decisions are made by Whoever Shows Up". Charge a a reasonable dues for a year (?$100.?) and prorate that against whatever fundraising is done to offset the dues. More Fundraising, less dues. The Pack treasury is used to buy Pack Stuff (flag, activities reservations) and Scout Bling (patches, awards, books, neckers,, woggles) that the boys "earn" and receive by dint of their continuing in Scouts. If the boy works and earns the bling, he receives it. More work, more bling, but EVERYONE is expected to contribute to the Common Weal, either by dues and/or working the Popcorn/Carwash/Spaghetti supper. If you can't or won't, well, we are a charitable Pack and recognize that not all can do everything. We still want your boy to be a Cub Scout..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Announce that the Pack Committee includes ALL parents. Announce that "The Work is done and the Decisions are made by Whoever Shows Up". Charge a a reasonable dues for a year (?$100.?) and prorate that against whatever fundraising is done to offset the dues. More Fundraising' date=' less dues. The Pack treasury is used to buy Pack Stuff (flag, activities reservations) and Scout Bling (patches, awards, books, neckers,, woggles) that the boys "earn" and receive by dint of their continuing in Scouts. If the boy works and earns the bling, he receives it. More work, more bling, but EVERYONE is expected to contribute to the Common Weal, either by dues and/or working the Popcorn/Carwash/Spaghetti supper. If you can't or won't, well, we are a charitable Pack and recognize that not all can do everything. We still want your boy to be a Cub Scout.....[/quote'] This balance between fundraising and dues is a little like ISA's. Gotta be careful of that. I would just put down a clear policy and let it go with that. Dues are $xx.xx and we fundraise the rest. If we run out of money, the boys will have to wait until we do to get their awards, etc. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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