Pack18Alex Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 They were definitely trying to hitch their wagon to the BSA, until the BSA decided that openly gay kids don't need to be thrown out until their 18th birthday, which apparently offended their religious beliefs. Correction. The BSA decided that gay attracted kids that were totally celibate needn't be thrown out until their 18th birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 What did they decide to do to straight boys that were not totally celibate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0ut717 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Keep in mind that today's liberals really don't care a fig about "diversity" either. They want their values rto rule just like the groups they oppose' date=' and are delighted with the opportunity tocoerce others into following their values or read other groups out of polite society when they get the chance to do so. It's the pot calling the kettle black, By and large, people LIKE their differences.[/quote'] So how is supporting the rights of an individual liberal? Or do we only stand for rights for people with the same sexual preference as us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 What did they decide to do to straight boys that were not totally celibate? Read the rule change: 1. Sexual activity for scouts is totally inappropriate. 2. Same-sex-attraction is not grounds for dismissal. Essentially, a Scout can still be removed from a unit for behavior, not for coming out as gay oriented. No, a CO could prohibit all sexually active scouts, prohibit same sex sexually active scouts, or simply ignore the issue and assume that BSA wants to be done with this. I'm pretty sure we're all done with this issue, but BSA's rule change was written VERY carefully to not offend any religious groups that participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Correction. The BSA decided that gay attracted kids that were totally celibate needn't be thrown out until their 18th birthday. You have a source you can cite for that, Alex? I don't remember reading the word "celibate" in the new policy. (Much less "totally celibate.") And unless I am mistaken, in the year and a half since the new policy was announced, I don't think I have ever seen anyone claim that is what the policy is, either on this forum or anywhere else. Now, if you are saying that a Scout that brags to other Scouts about his sexual exploits should be removed from Scouting, that's a different subject. I'm not sure that's the national policy, though. If it is, or if that policy can be applied as a matter of local option (cough cough), then it should apply regardless of orientation. In other words, we shouldn't be hearing about the young man's private activities, regardless of the gender of the other participant. (I'm fairly sure that if an adult got wind of such discussions in my troop, there would be at least one stern warning before any action was taken.) But now we're not discussing "celibacy," we're discussing TALKING about celibacy, or the lack thereof. Where does celibacy itself get into the picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Read the rule change: 1. Sexual activity for scouts is totally inappropriate. 2. Same-sex-attraction is not grounds for dismissal. Essentially, a Scout can still be removed from a unit for behavior, not for coming out as gay oriented. No, a CO could prohibit all sexually active scouts, prohibit same sex sexually active scouts, or simply ignore the issue and assume that BSA wants to be done with this. I think most people are interpreting that to mean behavior IN THE UNIT. Not what we think or hear or assume might be going on somewhere else. Or do you think the policy allows us (or REQUIRES us?) to ask a young man what is going on in his personal life? Are Scouters supposed to be asking Scouts what they are doing on dates? Are they allowed to? I'm curious as to how your interpretation of this policy would work in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 And by the way Alex, the membership resolution does not use the word "attraction", it says: No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone. I'm not sure that attraction, orientation and preference all mean the same thing. And yes, I do see the word "alone", and I know what it says in the introductory language about behavior. I also know that there have been some sexually active Scouts, meaning heterosexual Scouts who are not "celibate" in their private lives (outside the troop), probably from the very beginning. And there are some now. So now what do we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 LeCastor Because they like where they are, and the son of the parents that started it originally for their daughter is in the boy scout troop there. They also are tired of fighting the strictures of the AHG group. Our local GS council is trying to improve their outreach, so they are giving it another try, especially now that the daughter and her friends ar bit older. ​ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The Puritans came to North America to practice their religion in peace and avoid religious persecution. . That's why they hung Mary Dyer in Boston in 1660. If you are in the neighborhood, please join our Interfaith Thanksgiving Celebration , "Giving Thanks for Our Neighbors" https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyv6vcekk45ckt1/OlneyInterfaith.zip?dl=0 We have Methodists, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Quakers, (even!) Baptists participating.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Seattle Pioneer has no substance to his argument/position so as per usual he has to blame all the liberals because AHG is now rapidly dying on the vine since disassociating themselves from the BSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I'm asking this mostly to get this thread back on topic but....is AHG really dying on the vine? How can we even detect something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzzar Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 AHG membership had increased to 30,000 last year so it's not "rapidly dying on the vine." It's not a big group but being so specific in their religious requirements that's hardly surprising. It's a shame for the girls in the OP's unit that it's turned upside down but they can either recharter with a church that meets AHG's requirements or move on. Sounds like they chose option two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Moderator's Note: In light of Packsaddle's request that this topic get back on topic, but because I thought that the discussion of marriage had sort of taken on a life of its own, I decided to move the seven posts on that subject (including mine) to a new topic, "Court rulings on marriage." Basically I split the topic. Due to the way the forum software works, it looks like Seattle Pioneer started that topic, when it was really just spun off from his post, but there is nothing I could do about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 KDD, you've been listening to too much Joy Division and Cure... I guess I don't totally understand the OP, skeptic. Are you saying that the AHG Troop lost its charter and is now rechartering itself as a GS Troop? Why not seek another chartering org for that would welcome an AHG Troop? From what I read, the AHG troop lost it's charter, not because of the local church, but because National AHG didn't like the local church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I think most people are interpreting that to mean behavior IN THE UNIT. Not what we think or hear or assume might be going on somewhere else. Or do you think the policy allows us (or REQUIRES us?) to ask a young man what is going on in his personal life? Are Scouters supposed to be asking Scouts what they are doing on dates? Are they allowed to? I'm curious as to how your interpretation of this policy would work in practice. Irrelevant. Nothing is required. BSA and Council will NOT get involved in Unit Membership issues unless policy requires it. Unit refuses black members, Unit is in trouble. Unit throws out a boy for saying he's "gay oriented" (I interpret as SSA), Unit is in trouble. Unit throws a boy out for talking about his boyfriend, CO says, "we don't approve of middle school boys dating," BSA will say "find another unit." It doesn't matter what most people interpret it as, if a Unit wants to remove a boy, they can, as long as it's not for saying "I'm gay oriented." I think that 95% of people don't want to deal with this anymore. If there is a problem, most boys will either drop out of scouting or drop out of the unit. Few parents are twisted enough to make an embarrassing moment (kicked out of his troop for being gay) a huge case to fight to keep him in the unit, they'll either find a new unit or drop out of scouting.... that's how I predict this plays out. Major difference: RW Religious unit removes gay kid from Unit, BSA doesn't remove them from Scouting, they transfer to a non-RW Unit, life moves on. Basically, the revoked that "gay = no BSA" policy and threw a bone to gay rights activists that the boy can't be removed from his unit for "orientation" but left enough wiggle room that anti-gay COs can effectively remove a scout for holding hands with another boy. I'm not sure that attraction, orientation and preference all mean the same thing. And yes, I do see the word "alone", and I know what it says in the introductory language about behavior. I also know that there have been some sexually active Scouts, meaning heterosexual Scouts who are not "celibate" in their private lives (outside the troop), probably from the very beginning. And there are some now. So now what do we do? BSA will stay out of Unit Membership policies, which is the correct thing to do. Boy Scout Age youth (because this doesn't apply to Cubs) should find a Unit that they are comfortable in. This barely applies to Venturing, because if you're RW enough you're looking for an excuse to toss gay boys, you probably don't have a co-ed Venturing Crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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