Camping with Non-Scouts

[EagleScout441]

My Crew and another Crew are currently planning a wilderness survival outing for Dec. 5-7. Several Non-Scout youth are interested in attending the event, although, I don't see the most of them joining. Thoughts?

[LeCastor]

Hey, Eagle! Sounds like a good recruiting tactic to me. Perhaps they'll be inclined to join one of the Crews. Why don't you think they'd join?

[scoutergipper]

My Troop does this frequently - in some instances they are younger brothers of Scouts who aren't old enough to join yet. We call them "permanent guests" of the Troop, although you might be looking at a one-time deal.

 

My only concern would be from an insurance perspective, but I assume potential recruits would be covered under the Crew's policy.

[Stosh]

I always left the door open to visitors with no prejudging. Some that you think might join, don't and vice versa. Go have fun and don't worry about it. Wilderness survival 12/5 - 12/7 in the northern states? That'll weed out the faint of heart.

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

Yep. Been there done that. Although I suggest tacking on a $5 surcharge for non-members. You can put it towards their crew dues if they join, or reduce everyone else's dues if they don't.

[Troop185]

I invite the 1st yr. Boy Scouts up to my cabin every summer. The cabin is on 18 acres on the Pere Marquette River in Michigan. We kayak, canoe, tube the river, plus backpack out for a night, at the Sand Dunes next to Lake Michigan. I have a low ropes course, bb’s guns, and archery, at the cabin. We do a lot in three days.

 

We do a kayak practice, on a lake at home, before we leave for the trip. This summer, a new scout show up for kayak practice, with a boy they were babysitting. This boy had been in Webelos, but his mother did not want him to go on to Boy Scouts. She had been a swimmer, and wants him to concentrate on the swim team. The boy wanted to practice kayaking with us. One thing led to another, and I invited him to join us, for the trip to the cabin.

 

To make a long story, short: this boy was my favorite on the trip. A very nice kid, and he loved everything we were doing. (He was building a fire, when the Boy Scouts were inside playing cards.) He wants to be in Boy Scouts, but cannot talk his parents into it. Hopefully, his parents will come to their senses. But if not, I enjoyed spending the three days with him.

[EagleScout441]

To clarify a little further, we have my Crew of 5-7 people, and another Crew with expected attendance of around 10. The outing will be on my family's land. It was originally scheduled for Nov. 14-16, but the Council recently announced "Venturing Day" on Nov. 15, which my Crew will be attending. So we changed the date of the survival outing to Dec. 5-7.

The non-scouts are part of my church youth group.

 

Perhaps they'll be inclined to join one of the Crews. Why don't you think they'd join?

 

They seem more intrigued by the idea of a "survival" outing than Scouting itself.

 

 

Wilderness survival 12/5 - 12/7 in the northern states? That'll weed out the faint of heart.

Stosh

 

I'm in Middle Tennessee, temperature will probably be in the range of 20 to 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

[scoutergipper]

He wants to be in Boy Scouts' date=' but cannot talk his parents into it. Hopefully, his parents will come to their senses. But if not, I enjoyed spending the three days with him.[/quote']

 

I trust you will make an effort to reach out to the parents directly - buy them breakfast or something. They are doing their son a disservice.

[Stosh]

To make a long story, short: this boy was my favorite on the trip. A very nice kid, and he loved everything we were doing. (He was building a fire, when the Boy Scouts were inside playing cards.) He wants to be in Boy Scouts, but cannot talk his parents into it. Hopefully, his parents will come to their senses. But if not, I enjoyed spending the three days with him.

 

Just keep the door open and keep inviting him. A bit of snail mail each event will eventually be seen by the parents and may open the door for some dialog between the boy and parent.

 

Stosh

[CalicoPenn]

My only question to them would be "Do you have experience camping in a tent in a campsite without electricity?" A non-scout with tent camping experience I would accept on what I see as a "Camping 301" experience. A non-scout that has never camped, or has only camped in an RV or trailer would be a no go on a Wilderness Survival (Camping 301) camping trip but would be fine on a "normal" camping trip.

[SSScout]

Amen to Calico. Make sure they understand to ground rules upfront. They may be thinking "oh, cool. No parents! We can do anything we want! Like ...." They may think it is a resort sort of thing, rather than a back to nature sort of thing. Even in cool temps....

 

I was leading a canoe trip once and one group was VERY disappointed when I insisted on inspecting their cooler and then telling them they could not bring the beer. Had to do it, we had a good time, despite the lack.

 

Oh, and Troop 185: I trust that was not only you and the new Scouts? Sounds like a neat intro to Scouting , WITH appropriate YP stuff!

[qwazse]

... the date of the survival outing to Dec. 5-7.

The non-scouts are part of my church youth group.

 

Sounds like they are folks you trust, and you have a little time to prepare. If any of them are young women, they should meet your female adult who will be going on the trip.

 

... They seem more intrigued by the idea of a "survival" outing than Scouting itself.

 

That's not uncommon, and thus we have "venturers" instead of "venture scouts". We shouldn't really expect a crew to be all that obsessive about uniforming or patrolling. We want them to come to agreement on the next adventure of their choice and do what it takes to arrive at it. (Sometimes "traditional" scouting is what it takes. Other times, not.)

 

.... I'm in Middle Tennessee' date=' temperature will probably be in the range of 20 to 40 degrees Fahrenheit.[/quote']

 

It would be a good idea for your crew to set up a couple "cold weather training" evenings. Basically, your nonmembers need to be up to speed. One evening would be going over the gear you need. The next would be a "shake down" to make sure everyone has the gear they'll need.

[EagleScout441]

Sounds like they are folks you trust, and you have a little time to prepare. If any of them are young women, they should meet your female adult who will be going on the trip.

 

They are, I've known a couple of them for a few years. I don't think any "young women" from my youth group will attend.

 

That's not uncommon, and thus we have "venturers" instead of "venture scouts". We shouldn't really expect a crew to be all that obsessive about uniforming or patrolling. We want them to come to agreement on the next adventure of their choice and do what it takes to arrive at it. (Sometimes "traditional" scouting is what it takes. Other times, not.)

 

With these non-scouts it is more not having the time to commit to another activity (joining BSA) on top of what they are already into. But I've been pushing for a wilderness survival trip for a while and I've convinced a few of them to join in on this one that is already happening with Scouts.

 

It would be a good idea for your crew to set up a couple "cold weather training" evenings. Basically, your nonmembers need to be up to speed. One evening would be going over the gear you need. The next would be a "shake down" to make sure everyone has the gear they'll need.

 

My Crew (538) has never had a wilderness survival outing, but they've done everything except the shelters.

The other Crew is 87, they have survival outings constantly.

We've got a "shake down" planned.

As far as cold weather training goes, us Scouts are okay, it won't be our first cold weather outing.

[qwazse]

They are' date=' I've known a couple of them for a few years. I don't think any "young women" from my youth group will attend.[/quote']

Our young women rarely come out for winter camping either. Regardless, if your crew does have a female adult participating, still extend the invite. Often there's a girl or two (especially in youth groups) who are ready for the kinds of opportunities venturing provides, but they think the door is closed to them. If they know they'd be welcome, they might eventually join (even if they pass on this particular event).

With these non-scouts it is more not having the time to commit to another activity (joining BSA) on top of what they are already into. But I've been pushing for a wilderness survival trip for a while and I've convinced a few of them to join in on this one that is already happening with Scouts. ... We've got a "shake down" planned.

It's really essential that the non-scouts get a training and shake-down. If they are busy, some of you venturers will have to make time to have it at their convenience. If you have to, ask your youth leader if you can have time to talk about your upcoming exploit. It should be easy to justify talking about surviving a day in the wilderness when our Lord took 40 at a stretch!

 

[Troop185]

~~Oh, and Troop 185: I trust that was not only you and the new Scouts? Sounds like a neat intro to Scouting , WITH appropriate YP stuff!

 

What did I ever say (write) that would make you think, I would every go by myself. That would be crazy. In fact, it is an interesting story about this trip. It was scheduled for June, but got push back one month.

 

The weekend before the Boy Scout trip. I was spending Sunday night, at the Nordhouse Sand Dunes with a group of Webelos (5 Webelos, 1 Boy Scout, and 3 other adults - including the Webelos Leader.) We were backpacking back to the vehicles on Monday and returning home, and the Boy Scouts were backpacking into the dunes on Wednesday. So to save me some work (I though), we did not take down two of the tents – one for the scouts, and one for the adults. [i had done this before, and did not have a problem. The Nordhouse Sand Dunes is the only federal wilderness area in the lower part of Michigan, but does not have a lot of traffic, during the week.] I only had 4 new Boy Scouts coming on Wednesday, and another Assistant Scoutmaster. The scouts were small, and could all fit into one tent.

 

The SA was going to Philmont later in the summer with his son, and was excited about doing the backpacking, to help with his conditioning. That weekend, he was leading a canoeing trip with the Boy Scouts, and developed an infection on his leg. He returned on Sunday, and called my wife to give us the bad news. Of course, I could not be reached, as I was at the sand dunes. I was over 100 miles from the dunes, on the drive home, when I got the news.

 

I cancelled the June trip for the new Boy Scouts, and then drove back to the sand dunes by myself on Tuesday, in a rain storm. (I put 475 miles on the van that day.) I hiked in with an empty backpack, and took down the wet tents in the sand, and backpacked back to the van. The only good part, there was a high school youth camp, coming in for the night. They did not know where to go, so I was able to help them out.

 

The S.A. had a bad infection, and had to cancel out of going to Philmont, and could not come up to my cabin in July. One of our committee members, an Eagle Scout, joined me for the trip; plus we picked up two more scouts, and the guest youth, that could come in July. One of the dads also a committee member, could come up in July, so we had 7 youth and 3 adults.

 

By the way, the CM and SA are both in their mid 60’s, and I am turning 70 in two months. We have been around this scouting business for a long time, and know all the Youth Protection regulations.