Camping when cold

[DuctTape]

At BALOO several years ago a scooter told me he would put stones in the fire then bury them in a hole under the tent with an inch or two of soil over the rocks. Says it kept him warm. Anyone hear of that or tried it?

 

 

Up here, if one can dig a hole, it ain't that cold. The concept is great survival technique if one ever is found to be in a situation without proper gear. Many ideas are thrown around of this type, survival techniques. But they should be used as last resort, not due to poor planning. Carry some closed cell foam, much lighter than a shovel to dig the hole.

[Stosh]

Up where I live, one needs a pick-ax to dig a hole, no shovel is going to work.

 

Stosh

[TAHAWK]

Nature calls is the worst part of cold weather camping. Been seeing all those catheter commercials on TV recently. Has me thinking.

 

 

Just be sure the bottle has a really secure lid.

[TAHAWK]

I have never heard to avoid down from a temp standpoint. Cost and care sure. You can also have an issue with it getting wet althought there is treatment on newer bag that will prevent the down from absorbing water. I down have a down bag but I know that my down coat is the warmest coat I have pound for pound.

 

 

You sweat 24/7/365. As a result, warm, moist air is migrating away from you body 24/7/365. If this warm, moist air reaches dew point at a place where there is down, liquid water will be absorbed by the down. The down will lose loft. It is almost impossible to dry down in the field. Unless you like vapor barriers and the resulting warm swamp, avoid down.

[TAHAWK]

Here in southern England we don't get proper winters the way you folks do. You have to get up to Scotland for that sort of thing!

 

When we do camp in properly cold conditions (coldest I've taken kids out in went down to -8C over night, not sure what that is in F, sorry!) .

 

17.6 F

 

[DuctTape]

While I personally do not recommend down for scouts, this is due to cost and boys' tendencies caring for their gear.

 

Condensing moisture in insulation happens even with all synthetic fibers. Wet synthetics suck too. For a few nights, the amount of moisture is not a concern. There is a reason down is still the insulation of choice for even the most extreme mountaineers.

[TAHAWK]

Who, other than your honorable self, regards down as the "insulation of choice"?

 

Yes, the "kid factor" is there, but this is a Scouting forum.

 

Polyester is hydrophobic and dries readily. While it is less effective when wet, it does not collapse like down. Down absorbs water and is very difficult to dry. California may present a lesser problem. You may be able to dry the bag in the sun during the day. Here in the midwest, we often do not see the sun at all for a week or more. Seattle? Forget it.

 

If the down bag has insulation value well in excess of what is required, you may still sleep sufficiently warm despite the inevitable loss to moisture.

[King Ding Dong]

Thanks for reminding me Tahawk that we are entering the season of 2 straight weeks of overcast, no rain, no snow, just two weeks of straight gray.

[TAHAWK]

NE Ohio has about 200 days a year with no sun. Not what I was used to in Cal. 0___0

 

My brief experience in Seattle was weird. No rain in July. Rain every day but one in August. Rain 27 days in September. I fled back to Ohio before I died of mildew. And those slugs !!!!

[MattR]

MattR,

 

A plastic sheet to keep the moisture from soaking into the bedding and a foam pad for insulation will do better than a wool blanket. My RidgeRest pad rolls up and takes less space, and is lighter than a wool blanket.

 

I use the wool blanket to cover the entire floor and I put my foam pad on top of that. The pad only covers half the floor.I'm not sure why but it helps a lot. It blocks the cold from coming up around the foam pad. It may only help within a few inches of the floor but that's pretty much where I am all night.

[DuctTape]

Who' date=' other than your honorable self, regards down as the "insulation of choice"? Yes, the "kid factor" is there, but this is a Scouting forum. Polyester is hydrophobic and dries readily. While it is less effective when wet, it does not collapse like down. Down absorbs water and is very difficult to dry. California may present a lesser problem. You may be able to dry the bag in the sun during the day. Here in the midwest, we often do not see the sun at all for a week or more. Seattle? Forget it. If the down bag has insulation value well in excess of what is required, you may still sleep sufficiently warm despite the inevitable loss to moisture.[/quote'] Respectfully, look at any gear list for those who do extreme mountaineering. Recommended lists for Everest expeditions for example. As far as those who do less than these extreme, even most experienced amatuers will choose down over synthetics. Instructors for the AMC and ADK Winter Mountaineering School also recommend down sleeping bags. Lastly, research dri-down.

[Stosh]

I use the wool blanket to cover the entire floor and I put my foam pad on top of that. The pad only covers half the floor.I'm not sure why but it helps a lot. It blocks the cold from coming up around the foam pad. It may only help within a few inches of the floor but that's pretty much where I am all night.

 

Whatever it takes to keep warm! There are a few restless sleepers or people who curl into fetal position that find themselves not on the pads for most of the night. This might be the solution they need for a wider sleep area.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

Or you can just say the hell with it and get an REI 3.5" XL (extra wide) self inflating pad and not be cranky in the morning. Close as I can get to my Tempurpedic. I have a enough crap to deal with wearing a CPAP. Constant condensation on your nose all night and the whistling of the moisture on the valve. My cheap slumberjack 20* bag has a neat feature. An 18" zipper down by the feet with mesh for ventilation when the toes get to warm.

[Sidney Porter]

Who, other than your honorable self, regards down as the "insulation of choice"?

 

Yes, the "kid factor" is there, but this is a Scouting forum.

 

Polyester is hydrophobic and dries readily. While it is less effective when wet, it does not collapse like down. Down absorbs water and is very difficult to dry. California may present a lesser problem. You may be able to dry the bag in the sun during the day. Here in the midwest, we often do not see the sun at all for a week or more. Seattle? Forget it.

 

If the down bag has insulation value well in excess of what is required, you may still sleep sufficiently warm despite the inevitable loss to moisture.

Are you comparing it to treated or untreated down.

This is a good video. I do not have a bag

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/141027151708-child-ray-rice-costume-story-top.jpg

 

[CherokeeScouter]

Love this thread. Good post. First campout ever - and it was the coldest since - it got down to 5 below and we were in a freakin' creek bed. The wind was whistling through the pass, so no telling what the wind chill was. Very first campout. I was 11. Kids came through MUCH better than adults. Definitely wool caps and complete change of clothes at lights out - including underwear. We had prepped at meeting before, so we all made it through. Cotton is OK I guess, but wool is king. Insulates even when wet. But this was so long ago that even down bags were new. Now they have so many different products that it's definitely easier to prepare.