Camping when cold

[newscouter3]

What do you use in your tent to stay warm when camping in the cold weather? I personally just use an extra blanket inside my sleeping bag. But I have a parent asking for input on a space heater that is tent safe. Asking for negative or positive input.

[Stosh]

Welcome to the forum!

 

What parents do with their kids when they camp with them is up to them. No Flames in tents, that pretty much sums up no space heaters.

 

Any heat source in a nylon tent with nylon bedding is going to be a problem.

 

It might be beneficial for your boys to take a course in Winter Camping. Well worth the effort and cost. If one knows what they are doing, the warmest you will be all weekend long is in your sleeping bag at night. Up where I live the temps can easily drop to 20 below, but I've never been out on those weekends. In and around zero is easy to deal with. A troop in our council was out and spent the weekend camping at -43-degrees. Those are some serious bragging rights.

 

Stosh

 

[DuctTape]

In winter the furnace is one's body. It is futile to try to warm the environment, thus one uses insulation to reduce heat loss and then fuels the internal furnace with good food. Inside the tent, the most common issue with temp is not the sleeping bag, but what one has underneath them. The closed cell foam pads are excellent insulators from the ground. note: keep the snow on the ground as it also is an insulator. But in regards to your question, my recommendation to parents is obvious. btw, we do sub-zero trips quite regularly.

[newscouter3]

I am laughing as I am reading this. Because we are in Florida, this camping trip I thought was for a future trip we have planned in November, which we had last year went camping and the low got to be 33 degrees. However this is for a family trip she is doing this weekend, which I just looked up the weather and the low will be 64 degrees. My florida boys would not make it in -20 degree weather much less -43 degree. But thank you for your advice.

[qwazse]

Suggest to the parent pocket hand-warmers or wool or fleece blankets/scarves/socks for her extremities with poor circulation.

The real trick with kids is keeping their bedding dry. Which often means shucking wet cloths before going into the tent. Or, teaching kids not to unroll their bedding until they have changed in to dry sleeping clothes. Even a t-shirt that was worn all day can hold enough perspiration to give you the chills at night, (Happened to me last night as I was sleeping out in my hammock -- temps in the 50s. Forgot to shuck the shirt I was wearing before going to sleep. Woke up chilled an hour later.)

 

IMHO, because even body heat can work its way through cloths to melt snow or absorb freezing rain, 20 - 40 degrees F is much more precarious than -10 to 20 degrees F. As long as I'm out of the wind, I can easily shuck clothes in sub-zero temps, crawl into my bag with a wool blanket and socs (which may or may have a tent blocking the sky from me) and have a space warmed up enough for sleeping twenty minutes later. Never slept out in temps colder than that.

[fred johnson]

qwazse is right ... moisture control. I also believe 20-40F is more dangerous than -10 to 20. ... read his post.

 

The only thing I'll add is that I like a really loose soft knit hat for at night. I only use a mummy bag when it's significantly below zero. For anything above that, I use a normal bag with a liner and a nice soft knit hat. I do that only because I roll in my sleep and I've had a few times where I'm facing the wrong way in the mummy bag and I really really hate waking up like that.

[LeCastor]

I agree with Q and Fred about moisture. We have an annual backpacking-themed Camporee in our council in April. Here in the upper-Midwest it's still pretty chilly and damp at that time of year and the medical officer always reminds us to be mindful or keeping dry to avoid hypothermia. 40s and wet = dangerous when sleeping outdoors. I have to echo the knit cap, too. I never camp without a knit cap jammed in my pack for when the temps drop into the 50s. After all, we do lose a LOT of heat from our heads. So knit cap, dry socks and a thin layer of dry clothing coupled with a foam pad and sleeping bag with liner is plenty for FL.

[Stosh]

T-shirt? #1 Rule of winter camping, no clothing whatsoever made of cotton! Cotton Kills is the phrase used here.

 

Polypropylene or silk against the skin, everything else is wool.

 

Dry clothes before heading to bed. Stocking cap (wool) is mandatory.

 

Vapor barrier, insulator pad, sleeping bag, no cots.

 

Hydration and balanced food - Sugars to generate energy for the first 2-3 hours of sleep, carbohydrates for hours 3-5, proteins for hours 5-8.

 

No campfires or heat sources except to heat food.

 

Never stand still, keep active and keep warm.

 

Take the felt liners out of boots and open them up before going to bed.

 

..... just take the course, it has a ton of information that is helpful for winter camping.

 

Stosh

[NJCubScouter]

Yes newscouter3, there is a matter of perspective going on here. For my troop that does most of its camping in NJ, PA and NY, 33 degrees in the late fall through early spring would seem positively tropical. Next month they are going to Maryland, where You Never Know. I went on that trip twice and had two very different experiences. But as long as you FEEL cold, the above advice from our fellow Scouters will do the trick.

[newscouter3]

I never thought about the clothes you have in during the day feeling drying and holding moisture. My own son has a way of sleeping in his clothes from the day, and I am always telling him to change but boys will be boys. But now that I hear this information I will make him change. I am not sure if Florida has a Winter camping course. Not much of Winter down here in the south. But I will look into it, because I know my troop does go up north during the winter months for week long camping trips. Thanks everyone.

[MattR]

I don't know that I've ever been camping at 64 degrees. I would sleep on top in my boxers at that temp. But it's all relative. Don't add layers inside the sleeping bag as your body will not warm up the bag and you'll end up with cold toes. Put the layers on the outside. Our winter campouts are in the 0 to -20 range and I use a second bag as a blanket. One problem with many bags if you sleep on your side is you get tight spots around your hips and shoulders, thus compressing the insulation to the point of not doing much good. A second loose layer solves that problem. Insulation underneath is also critical. Below ~10 I also like a balaclava to keep my neck warm.

[LeCastor]

Hey, NewScouter. After living in WI for a few years I went back to Baton Rouge to visit some college buddies. They met me at the car as I arrived and said, "we're going camping". It got down to about 32 that night and I was terribly cold due to the dampness in the air. I'm a Southern boy who has gained a boat-load of knowledge about cold-weather camping through trial and error (and reading forums) while living in the Midwest. Have fun and listen to all this great advice!

[DuctTape]

Hardest part about cold weather camping is not being cold, but getting too warm. As has been mentioned, it is moisture which is the enemy. Too warm=sweat=moisture=cold. Dry sleeping clothes.

 

Also agree about 40 deg being the worst time. I'll take subzero with snow any day before 40 deg and rain; that is true hypothermia conditions.

[TAHAWK]

Insulation = still ("dead") air. According to the U.S. military, the following total garment thicknesses ("loft") are the minimum needed to keep the average, healthy sleeper reasonably warm inside a tent or other shelter that blocks wind. A sleeping bag is simply a special garment designed for sleeping. Otherwise, a layer is a layer is a layer. It is assumed that 1/2 of the loft is above the sleeper and 1/2 below. It is also assumed that the sleeper has a suitable insulating sleeping pad or mattress below him or her that will retain some loft despite body weight. Layers of dry cardboard can serve as a sleeping pad, as can suitable thicknesses of wool or polyester blankets.

 

Low Temp Tot. Loft of bag

 

40f 3.0"

 

30f 3.5"

 

20f 4.0" Shake out your bag to fluff it up, and lay it on the

floor. Wait ten minutes and measure total loft.

10f 4.5"

 

0f 5.0"

 

-10f 5.5"

 

-20f 6.0"

 

 

As noted above, dead air does not know what the garment is called that traps it around you. If there is room, dry clothing or other layers worn inside the bag increases insulation. Crushing out the trapped air by stuffing in material when there is no spare room decreases insulation (like stuffing extra socks in boots). The insulative material needs to be loose.

 

A smooth liner allows you to move around without tying your bag into a knot and is just as warm as a knapped (fuzzy) liner.

 

Avoid cotton. Avoid down.

 

One or more wool or polyester blankets can be used around the head and shoulders to trap air inside the bag if you have a sleeping bag without a hood that fits snuggly around the face.

 

Double up bags to reach your loft goal.

 

DO NOT breath into the sleeping bag. Like sweating, that would cause moisture to collect in the sleeping bag material, and a wet sleeping bag does not insulate nearly as well as a dry bag

 

Avoid metal zippers as they may freeze shut or snag/tear the bag material.

 

 

[King Ding Dong]

Nature calls is the worst part of cold weather camping. Been seeing all those catheter commercials on TV recently. Has me thinking.