LIscouter Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I don't know how to advise my son...please help. A boy in his unit is about to start his Eagle project. However, recently, he bragged to a few boys, including my son, about how he was able to cheat on two merit badges. He was very specific. He has received his blue cards for those badges. My son is distraught. He is having a crisis of faith in the program...and he has been a dedicated scout for 10 years. He even wonders now...how can Eagle be worth anything, when someone can scam their way through. How to I guide my son, and...should the troop leadership...ie advancement coordinator, Eagle coordinator, be made aware of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Tell your son he is only responsible for the content of his own character. Eagle is worth what the individual scout puts into it. I suspect you could find lots of people who cheated their way to a college degree. Does that diminish the accomplishment of completing a course of study yourself? You have a wonderful opportunity to reinforce strong character and values with your son at this moment. What a blessing in disguise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 When I was a young Scout I dreamed of becoming an Eagle and had my future all mapped out--which badges I was going to earn and all. Then, a boy in my Troop earned Eagle and promptly turned 18, got in major trouble with the law, and ended up in prison. My view of Eagle shifted dramatically at that time and it lost the glow and glimmer it had had for me for so long. My priorities shifted and I never finished all that I had planned to do in Scouting. However, I don't regret any of it. My time in Scouting was a blast and I have friends today that I met in my Troop way back when. I still learned valuable lessons of honor and trustworthiness in Scouting. That is exactly what @dcsimmons suggests you mention to your son. By telling on the "cheater" your son might feel good in the short run, but he will gain much more by worrying about his own path in Scouting and developing those character traits that Scouting promotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Liscouter: Welcome to the forum! First of all as a parent, relax! Your son just got an excellent learning opportunity dropped in his lap. It's called a reality check and as one well knows, this goes on many, many times during the adolescent years. Mom and Dad are not the ideal people they thought they were when they were 5 years old. The idealistic world of Scouting is shaken by the reality of the people in the Eagle program. So now's the time to sit down with your boy, explain the world is not as idealistic as he once thought and that as a maturing adult, he needs to be making choices for himself and don't worry about "the other guy". Your son now has an opportunity to actually choose a route for his Eagle that will set the value of that rank for him and his future. That value should NOT be set by anyone else anyway. It's HIS Eagle and he can set whatever value he puts into it by what he does to get it. People on this forum have tossed a few e-bricks at me for using the term Paper Eagle or Parlor Scouts. But you and your son now know what I am referring to. Maybe you can help me find a better term that doesn't offend other Eagles in the process. What people don't realize is that it's not me and my terminology that's the problem, it's boys like your son met that are the real problem. So the challenge/opportunity for your son? What's he going to do to make Scouting the ideal he once thought it was? What's the example he is going to set for the young idealistic scouts that follow in his footsteps? As far as the other boy is concerned, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If he brags enough the word will get back to the leadership of the troop, but once a blue card is signed there is nothing anyone can do about it. The only thing that can be controlled is the actions of your son, by him! Just support him in his decision. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Your son has the right to be angry. But he needs to decide what his next move is ... Quit scouting (or at least stop gunning for Eagle) because he's learned that some scouts are frauds. I hope he doesn't do that, but let's not fault him if he does. However, when he does he should make clear to his SM why he is doing so without naming names. Confront the scout and tell him he should be ashamed of himself for "gaming the system". That he has nothing to brag about, that the medal is not worth anything unless it's earned, and that he should tell the SM so they can figure out how to make it right, and so the SM can give those counselors "a talking to". Tell the SM or CC of the incident of fraud. They are under no obligation to sign an Eagle application or any further advancement. We had an instance like this. The CC refused to sign. We felt no obligation to tell the boy about the appeals process. Do nothing. After all it's only a patch and some bling. Who knows? He might need to cut corners down the road. Just tell him not to brag about it because he now understands how bad that makes other boys who take the "long cut" feel. Happy scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Mostly good advice above. I differ in that NO HECK NO would I let this pass. 'Looking the other way' allows / enables cheating. It is good that your son is upset. At the minimum, I'd encourage him to have a private chat with his SM. As an SM, I try to foster a culture that allows boys to approach me with anything. That means that I don't prattle "John says that you did so and so...". I try to verify from another source so that I can protect the first source; and I don't accept anything bad about another boy unless I can verify it. One of my biggest challenges is protecting the integrity of the Merit Badge program while keeping it easy for the boys. If I set up barriers, they won't participate. If I make it too easy, they don't appreciate their work product. It's not possible for an SM to verify the work done on all the MBs in his troop. Any help that the SM can get correcting shortcomings in the system is a good thing. An Eagle candidate who brags about cheating deserves to have his wings trimmed. He thinks so little of Trustworthy that he is going out of his way to degrade Scouting in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 As an Eagle myself, I constantly tell anybody who will stand and listen that the value of Eagle is what the Scout puts into earning Eagle. The requirements are there to get the Scout to stay in the program, and the program run properly is what helps a scout form proper values and ethics.The requirements alone do not build character. I would ABSOLUTELY bring this up to the Scoutmaster. The Scoutmaster cannot take the merit badge away, but he needs to sit down and have an attitude adjustment chat with the cheater-Scout. That Scout is missing the whole point of Scouting, and the Scoutmaster should reach out to this Scout who is so blatantly mocking the values of Scouting. As for your son, he's going to have crisis's of faith in his religion, his family, his country. Imperfect organizations and imperfect people tend to do that. Help your son realize what the value of Scouting is to him, and he should worry about that. Eagle is the natural extension of a good scouting experience. As a merit badge counselor for one of the more widely cheated on Merit Badges (Personal Fitness 12 week requirement anybody?) it can be difficult to evaluate and catch cheating. Especially with teenage boys struggling to follow directions anyways..... This is why I no longer volunteer at Merit Badge Challenges/Universities. It's too easy for Scouts to slip through the cracks, and I don't like the classroom style anyways. Take my opinion for what it's worth. Good luck to your son and his Scouting journey and welcome to Scouter.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I agree with the general "theme" of the responses above. If your son makes Eagle, its HIS Eagle, not anybody else's. It means what it means. We had a Scout in our troop once who proposed an Eagle project that our SM did not think met the requirements, and did not approve it. Rather than modify the project or choose a new project, the Scout switched troops and got approval from THEIR SM for exactly the same project. (Evidently the district advancement committee had "lower" standards than our SM, because they approved the project.) Some of the kids in our troop were aware of this. Did it diminish the value of Eagle in their eyes? Maybe it did, but I am not aware of anyone giving up on Eagle because of this. And after that, we had a couple of projects that all of us thought were really two or perhaps even three projects, but that is what the Scout wanted to do. So even after the one Scout cut corners, a couple of others not only met the standards, but went way beyond. They did what THEY thought an Eagle should do. Does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Anyone who wants some 'pointers' on cheating should consult the athletics program at UNC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meschen Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Tell your son to report the situation to the Scoutmaster. While the merit badges can't be taken away, his Scoutmaster is still required to complete a Scoutmaster Conference and sign-off on requirement 2 (live by the Scout Oath and Law). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 << [TABLE] [TR] [TD=align: center] The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD]>> If you consider the mission statement, I think it's clear that breeding cynicism in a boy by ignoring a cheating problem is not going to advance the mission. I think I'd encourage the boy to report this to the SM, who hopefully would act wisely in dealing with the issue.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Sounds like a ScoutMaster Minute here...... Or would the SM directly confront the Scout about the third party overheard bragging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 SM Minute? Would the topic concern cheating or would it be concerning passing on hearsay gossip? Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 < Stosh>> There are good reasons why hearsay is prohibited in a criminal trial. And good reasons why it can prove useful as a reason for investigating other kind of issues and problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I wonder if that's why in some moral codes it is addressed as a no-no? Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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