Unit Treasurer

[fred johnson]

... Legally the CO owns the unit and ...

 

I've always wondered about that statement. "Legally" depends on the jurist. If the jurist is BSA, the statement is right. It's what us adult leaders are taught.

 

If the jurist is an government court, I'm not so sure on that. The charter agreement does not read like a standard business-to-business agreement or even a legally binding agreement. It's looks like a partnership intent agreement at best.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/524-182_web.pdf

 

But as far as "legally" owning ???? IMHO, the only legally binding items are the EIN, the checking account and the business infrastructure underneath those.

 

Heck, the popcorn sales themselves create a bigger mess. Council provides and profits from popcorn sold by members of the charter org "partner". Money is used to subsidize and reduce cost to their members. Hmmm.....

 

.................

 

"EIN" and checking accounts introduce well-defined legal issues. Charter org agreements sound mushy at best.

[RememberSchiff]

 

"I THINK" this is intentional. It takes time and energy to collect information that is useful. And what would you do with the info? And how would you protect the info? Plus it might scare away potential charter orgs. Also, it might also create BSA / council liability if it discovered issues and did not act. Heck, charter orgs don't even need to be non-profits. They could be a regular business. I know most business owners don't like sharing that info even if it's already available.

 

As long as the entity wants to charter a scout group and fulfills the requirements on the agreement, I doubt BSA or a council would say anything.

 

I hear what your saying. This is becoming a dog mess waiting to be stepped in.

 

Here's an interesting read "What are a church’s responsibilities when they host Boy Scouts?"

http://www.churchadminpros.com/scouts.htm

[SeattlePioneer]

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Once again we have Jblake making wildly exaggerated statements.

 

Checking accounts aren't "under" an EIN. Our pack needed an EIN to open a checking account, but it's not necessary to change EINs if you change a CO.

 

An EIN is simply a way for the government to identify organizations. They can be used as a tool to investigate organizations, and EINs may be needed to perform particular business functions, such as reporting taxes if you have employees.

 

But filing for an EIN pretty much means "Here we are!" By itself it doesn't mean much.

 

 

Our pack had its own EIN. A year ago we transferred from a Catholic parish to a Kiwanis club as CO. As a result of this thread, I'm going to ask the Kiwanis if they'll let us use their EIN. But I see no need to change the EIN the bank has on file for our checking account.

 

The real bottom line is that the IRS doesn't care about auditing Cub Scout Pack and Boy Scout Troops. I'm not a tax lawyer, and I'm not about to consult one for issues that are of no practical importance to a Cub Scout Pack.

 

Until BSA starts providing detailed guidance on what units need to do, I see little reason to worry much about it.

 

In Cub Scouts, we "do our best." That seems to suffice these days.

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[Stosh]

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Responsible-Parties-and-Nominees

 

Who's Social Security Number is on file as owner of the Pack. They might not want the exposure a false EIN could mean for them.

 

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Employer-ID-Numbers-EINs

 

EIN is basically a business Tax ID number. It means one must be legally established as a business. Most BSA units are not.

 

I could go on and on with wildly exaggerated statements from the IRS, but I think that most people who want to do it right get the picture.

 

Stosh

[packsaddle]

Sometimes it's best to take the easy way. Some banks will allow you to open an account without an EIN or a SSN. I've done it when organizing professional meetings and our Cub Scout Pack had a checking account that way as well. The key is not to make a profit and don't expect to be paid interest. But the troop, now, basically uses the CO account and the CO business office just has a sub-feature to their system that keeps account of our funds. I don't see the need to make things so complicated.

[SeattlePioneer]

<< [h=1]Employer Identification Number[/h] Every organization must have an employer identification number (EIN), even if it will not have employees. The EIN is a unique number that identifies the organization to the Internal Revenue Service.>>

 

 

That's from the IRS website.

 

 

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MORE bad information from Jblake, who characteristically provides misinformation.

 

You don;t have to be "legally established as a business."

 

And anyone can get an EIN, and indeed you can get one a day if you wish.

 

 

 

[Stosh]

And how is providing links to the IRS website, http://www.irs.gov providing misinformation? Sounds like a little agenda going on here.

 

Gotta use the whole quote, not just a bit taken out of context.

 

My CO is a church, that makes it a non-profit business that they must file a non-profit tax return and an annual report on it's status every year. Our troop is part of the CO's business and thus can and do use their EIN and tax-exempt status. We do not use BSA's non-profit EIN, or their tax-exempt status.

 

Stosh