King Ding Dong Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Where is any BSA Literature is a committee vote mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankpalazzi Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Where is any BSA Literature is a committee vote mentioned? It's not and never was! All decisions are arrived at by consensus, or per order of the CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenDavis500 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Regarding committee voting - I explained it to my new CC this way- you don't have to have a vote but you might end up without a committee if you don't at least take other opinions into consideration. She understood. Regarding the Unit Treasurer - the BSA says very little. A checking account and a savings account are recommended. With dual signatures. A petty cash fund for the SM is recommended. Individual Scout Accounts are allowed BUT only for payments from a Scout or his parents. Unit fundraisers are for the unit. Transparency, transparency, transparency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Perhaps it's time to reiterate the IRS and BSA policies on Scout Accounts' date=' which is "NO".[/quote'] "Scout Account" can mean two topics: financial accounting or fundraising credit. In the context of "fundraising", a scout can not be given credit for the majority (or a significant) portion of the fundraiser profits. That's the IRS danger area. BSA is trying to be sensitive to that area too. In the context of "accounting", troops need to know who owes who money. In our troop, we can print out a transaction record and relatively few accounts balance out at zero. Oct 1 - Plus $30 camp payment. Oct 15 - Minus $30 camp fee. Oct 15 - Minus boat rental portion. Sep 1 - Minus $50 annual dues. Nov 1 - Minus $12 Boy's Life subscription etc etc. Scout accounts are critical to balancing our books. Fundraising credit is the dangerous area, not scout accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The BSA does not tell a unit how to operate it's committee - it gives job descriptions and a suggested agenda in the Troop Committee Guidebook, but that's as far is it goes - it does recommend a video called "The Barbeque" for a, once again "suggested" way of operating a troop committee meeting. The Troop Committee Guidebook does not come right out and say when (or if) a committee should take a vote on things, the BSA literature does not come right out and talk about voting by committee members. That is not to say that committees should not take votes or should only work on consensus. In fact, the Troop Committee Guidebook obliquely hints that Troop Committees will likely take votes on things throughout the course of the year. How does it do this? By making this statement: "The Scoutmaster is not a member of the Troop Committee and has no vote." Now why would the BSA feel the need to point out that the Scoutmaster has no vote at committee meetings if the committees aren't expected to vote on things? Even consensus building is a form of voting - it may not be a formalized "All those in favor" vote, but it's still a way to determine what direction to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Where is any BSA Literature is a committee vote mentioned? Correct, when the Unit Committee is operating as a BSA Committee, votes are not taken. Roberts rules of order NOT followed, no motions/seconds/etc. One of my complainers started arguing that a decision that was made shouldn't me mine alone, it should be a committee decision, I explained that that's not how this works. However, when the Committee is instead operating as a committee of the CO, those rules may not apply. When the Committee Authorized us to open a bank account, a motion was made, a second was obtained, and the vote was taken. Why? Because Bank Account authorizations, in Florida, need to be made by vote by the governing association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Correct, when the Unit Committee is operating as a BSA Committee, votes are not taken. Roberts rules of order NOT followed, no motions/seconds/etc. One of my complainers started arguing that a decision that was made shouldn't me mine alone, it should be a committee decision, I explained that that's not how this works. However, when the Committee is instead operating as a committee of the CO, those rules may not apply. When the Committee Authorized us to open a bank account, a motion was made, a second was obtained, and the vote was taken. Why? Because Bank Account authorizations, in Florida, need to be made by vote by the governing association. The problem with that scenario is that the Committee of the unit is NOT the governing association, the CO is and the money belongs to the CO so the CO needs to be making the vote to open the account for the boys. One needs to fully understand the relationship between the CO and the unit. THE UNIT BELONGS TO THE CO. The committee is responsible for making sure everything is aligned correctly, the right personnel are in place and the BSA protocol is followed ON BEHALF OF THE CO. As a matter of fact the Committee can vote themselves silly and one word such as "No" from the COR and it's all for naught. My CO is a church and I view my program as part of that congregations ministry to the youth of the community. They have a youth director that handles the youth of the congregation, my job is to reach out into the community to provide a program for the youth there. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 When the Committee Authorized us to open a bank account, a motion was made, a second was obtained, and the vote was taken. Why? Because Bank Account authorizations, in Florida, need to be made by vote by the governing association. A vote by whom? The governing association is the charter organization. Your pack/troop does not exist except under their umbrella ... unless you are chartered by a "parents of unit ###" type organization. It begs the question ... are your committee members automatically voting members of the charter organization? Sometimes ... you just need to ... do your best ... smile ... and move onto the next topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 <<~~A vote by whom? The governing association is the charter organization. Your pack/troop does not exist except under their umbrella ... >> Saying this doesn't make it so. Our Pack has it's own EIN and checking account. The pack moved to a different CO a year ago, but continued to use the meeting place provided by the previous CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 It depends on who signs the CO agreement. That is the ownership contract with the BSA. If one can get the bank to go along with, fine. The problem is when the unit shuts down, then things get really ugly. Just depends on who gets stuck with someone else's mess. Unless it is a non-profit organization, one could get into problems with that EIN in that corporate taxes are not being paid. I guess I wouldn't let the cat out the bag anytime soon. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 "A Scout is Trustworthy". "A Scout is Thrifty". If it looks like a Treasurer, walks like a Treasurer, and signs checks that do not have his/her name on them like a Treasurer, it is a Treasurer. Whoever takes on the mantle of "Treasurer" , no matter what the organization, must needs be realize that he/she will be watched. He/she will have expectations put on them by the rest of the organization, and if the "rest of the organization" doesn't express those expectations vocally and often, then shame on the organization and they get what they deserve in the way of Treasurering. US Congress, wake up , please.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I also wonder how a unit got an EIN number without being a business entity. I don't think that any business entity exits without some sort of legal recognition and the only legal recognition of a BSA unit is through their CO or some group of "friends of Scouts" that have registered as such with the state. I'd check with a corporate lawyer on all that before I set off on my own. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 <> You apply for it on line. Anyone can do so. < >> Don't be silly. In my experience BSA is quite vague about such things. Large numbers of Scout units have their own checking accounts, EIN numbers, Scout Accounts and so on, and BSA guidance on such issues is vague or nonexistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 SeattlePioneer ... This tangent started because you indicated Florida requires a vote. I'm just pointing out that it gets way way more complex than you probably intend when we start bringing such issues in. Our pack also transferred bank accounts recently from a long established one to a new bank. The new bank very quickly routed us to creating an EIN. I was surprised by that but I can easily believe the IRS wants better tracking. The issue is that an EIN means you are an entity now. You need to file tax returns. You need to regularly declare your tax exempt status. Even more, there is confusion. jblake47 is right when he asks ... who signs the annual unit BSA charter paperwork ??? If it is the CO, you have redundant EINs and the bank account should have been created under that EIN. If you become large enough such as a band or sports booster club, you could have real issues here. --------------------------------------------------------------- BSA is very vague as this is complex and BSA could get into trouble if they advise badly on business issues. It is intentional. Work with your charter organization and/or their attorney / accountant. It's also one reason we liked our 20+ year old checking account. When we tried to open a new one recently, the bank wanted an EIN and many other pieces of info. So we kept our old account. BSA provides a structure for running a youth program. BSA does not provide the business infrastructure. That's why you have charter partners. That's what they provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 <> You apply for it on line. Anyone can do so. < >> Don't be silly. In my experience BSA is quite vague about such things. Large numbers of Scout units have their own checking accounts, EIN numbers, Scout Accounts and so on, and BSA guidance on such issues is vague or nonexistant. A ticked off parent and a lawyer can draw those inconsistencies into line rather quickly and a scout is supposed to be somewhat honest..... even though that issue is vague or nonexistant in the Scout Law and Oath. Read through it a couple of times, it just isn't there. Stosh Oh, by the way, my troop has an account opened up under the CO's EIN and we use their tax exempt number on our purchases. It, too, is possible and quite easy to set it up the correct way. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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