Committee overstepping their bounds

[Stosh]

 

I do like the idea of by-laws, but IMHO, it should just govern the money aspects of a troop--scout accounts, etc. I do like your basic three rules.

 

We don't have scout accounts. If the committee wishes to have by-laws for themselves, fine. They can spend the next 10 years making rules for themselves. Maybe that would be a good idea because they would be so busy with that they wouldn't have time to meddle in the boy's program. Rules for the boys resides in the BSA program as promoted by the SM.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

This is pretty timely from Clarke Green:

 

http://scoutmastercg.com/the-authority-of-youth-leadership/

 

Yep, 100% in agreement.

[allangr1024]

I have open on my desk a book from the BSA called "Troop Committee Guidebook", printed 2006 (If this has been updated, I can find out.) On Page 13 the book lists the troop committee organization and responsibilities. There are 12 points of responsibility, and they all talk about filling a support role. They are to support the scoutmaster in working with inidividual boys and problems that may affect the overall troop program. Not a word about writing troop bylaws or requirements. The committee "Ensures that quality adult leadership is recruited and trained. In case the Scoutmaster is absent, a qualified assistant Socutmaster is assigned. If the Scoutmaster is unable to serve, a replacement is recruited." So they can have input to for and support the adults, but not the youth leadership. NOT their jobs. I think you can listen to their "suggestions", and then say "Thanks, I will take it under advisement."

[Torchwood]

 

I do like the idea of by-laws, but IMHO, it should just govern the money aspects of a troop--scout accounts, etc. I do like your basic three rules.

 

A really bad example- Scout accounts are a no-no according to the IRS. There are VERY few spots where Troop by-laws are needed. Job descriptions are spelled out in a variety of places, the Charter agreement spells out the CO responsibilities, and Scout Oath and Law pretty much cover the rest.

[TAHAWK]

From the Boy Scouts of America (current language)

 

“Your Scoutmaster and other adult leaders will help Scouts become good leaders, then will step back and allow the troop’s youth leaders to take charge of planning and carrying out activities.â€Â

 

“The senior patrol leader (SPL) is elected by the Scouts to represent them as the top youth leader in the troop.â€Â

 

“He [the SPL] appoints other troop youth leaders with the advice and counsel of the Scoutmaster."

 

"Adults understand that their role is to create a safe place where boys can learn and grow and explore and play and take on responsibilitiesâ€â€and fail, and get up and try again.â€Â

 

[erroneous capitalization in original]

 

 

This language leaves no opportunity or aurhorirty to the TC to have any role in selecting or removing the SPL or any other leader (Scout).

 

 

 

In my experience as a unit, district, and council Scouter, unit bylaws create far more problems than they solve. At the most, a "This is how we do it" announcement is all that is needed. A TC is not a legal entity and does not create authority by passing rules.

[NJCubScouter]

Perdidochas, in one place you say "six weeks" and in another you say "six months." What is the actual length of the absence. I think that might make a difference as to whether the SM made the right decision. (And how long is the term of the SPL?) But whether it is the right or wrong decision, as you know and others have said, it is the SM's decision, not the committee's. I do think you may have a problem in "proving" it. BSA literature tends to say what different positions "do", not what they "don't do." I think you will have difficulty finding anything in the Troop Committee Guidebook or the Troop Committee Challenge training, or any other official publication, that specifically says "The Troop Committee does not have the authority to remove the SPL." The fact that they don't have that authority is pieced together logically from the fact that the literature does not say they do, that youth leadership positions are on the "program" side, and that the SM runs the "program" side. But that's just logic, and some people have difficulty with logic, and I'm guessing that some of your Troop Committee members may be among them. They may say, if there's nothing in the book that says we can't do it, we can do it. The fact that BSA literature (at least on this topic) generally doesn't work that way is something that we on this forum know, but you may have difficulty convincing others of that.

[frankpalazzi]

A few thoughts:

 

First, unless you are sponsored by a military installation that requires it, you don't need by-laws. Everything you need to run a unit is spelled out in BSA literature, including the Scout Oath and Scout Law. A SHORT list of "rules" for health & safety purposes are all you need. One page of Troop POLICIES are all you need. Know the difference between rules and policies! Rules are hard and fast. Policies can be adapted to each individual situation. By-laws serve no purpose but to perpetuate endless bickering and drama. This is a Scout troop, not Hewlett-Packard!

 

Second, Only the Scoutmaster has the authority to "remove" a youth leader from his POR. You will not find any reference to the committee being able to do so in any BSA publication, namely the Troop Committee Guidebook. Challenge your committee member(s) to show you this in print. They'll not be able to.

[NJCubScouter]

I agree with the others above on the issue of unit bylaws, by the way. I didn't mention it before because I have said it in this forum many times: Unless the CO requires it, there is no need for bylaws, and bylaws often get in the way of the proper running of a unit. Quite frankly, they give an "advantage" to people like me, who make their living in the "laws" business, and in my case, I have written bylaws for non-Scouting local organizations that DID need them. But it's an advantage I don't want and don't need, when dealing with my fellow Scouters. The "book" as provided by the BSA is not perfect, it does not have all the answers to every single question that might arise on the local level, but when applied with common sense and a shared objective, it is good enough that you don't need bylaws. The ONLY exception I could understand would be in the financial area, but my troop has never had bylaws even for that, and we seem to get along okay.

[perdidochas]

Perdidochas' date=' in one place you say "six weeks" and in another you say "six months." What is the actual length of the absence. I think that might make a difference as to whether the SM made the right decision. (And how long is the term of the SPL?) But whether it is the right or wrong decision, as you know and others have said, it is the SM's decision, not the committee's. I do think you may have a problem in "proving" it. BSA literature tends to say what different positions "do", not what they "don't do." I think you will have difficulty finding anything in the Troop Committee Guidebook or the Troop Committee Challenge training, or any other official publication, that specifically says "The Troop Committee does not have the authority to remove the SPL." The fact that they don't have that authority is pieced together logically from the fact that the literature does not say they do, that youth leadership positions are on the "program" side, and that the SM runs the "program" side. But that's just logic, and some people have difficulty with logic, and I'm guessing that some of your Troop Committee members may be among them. They may say, if there's nothing in the book that says we can't do it, we can do it. The fact that BSA literature (at least on this topic) generally doesn't work that way is something that we on this forum know, but you may have difficulty convincing others of that. [/quote']

 

The absence was 6 weeks (The SPL did miss orchestra practice twice--for COH and second PLC (and missing practice cost him a chair)). The performance was Tuesday (two days ago), and hopefully everything will be smooth again. The term of SPL is 6 months. We change SPLs in September and March. The unfortunate thing for the SPL is that Orchestra practice began the second week of his being SPL, and being a freshman, he didn't realize this. Locally, if you are in orchestra class in high school, part of the grade is to participate in the county wide youth orchestra, which meets on Monday nights from 6-8 pm. Our troop meets Monday nights from 7-8:30, and is located about 30 minutes away from the orchestra practice location.

 

Things are sorting out somewhat, and the Committee recognizes that the by-laws, in this instance, need to be changed. They weren't being enforced on this issue anyway, a committee member just copied and pasted a few sections from it, to "remind" the scouts and parents. They claim they weren't targeting the SPL, but everybody that read it instantly thought that was what they were doing.

 

[perdidochas]

A few thoughts:

 

First, unless you are sponsored by a military installation that requires it, you don't need by-laws. Everything you need to run a unit is spelled out in BSA literature, including the Scout Oath and Scout Law. A SHORT list of "rules" for health & safety purposes are all you need. One page of Troop POLICIES are all you need. Know the difference between rules and policies! Rules are hard and fast. Policies can be adapted to each individual situation. By-laws serve no purpose but to perpetuate endless bickering and drama. This is a Scout troop, not Hewlett-Packard!

 

Well, considering I'm one of two or three adults related to the troop who's not either military or a military spouse, that explains the by-laws. I do agree we need to change the by-laws to policies.

 

Second' date=' Only the Scoutmaster has the authority to "remove" a youth leader from his POR. You will not find any reference to the committee being able to do so in any BSA publication, namely the Troop Committee Guidebook. Challenge your committee member(s) to show you this in print. They'll not be able to.[/quote']

 

I agree. I think I'll take that tack instead of the proving that they can't.

[RememberSchiff]

Our Troop Committee notified a scout that they did not "approve" his selected Eagle adviser, another adviser would need to be selected and approved Our SM quickly correctly that.

 

You need to stand up and right the wrongs.

 

My $0.02