chrisg478 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 We had the same issue with a pack in our District. The DE and District Committee were aware of the problem but did not do anything to correct the situation. Everything worked out ok until the boys finished all the activity pins and AOL requirements by the middle of 4th grade. Most of the boys quit scouting at that point because there was nothing left for them to do with the Pack and they were not old enough to cross-over into a Troop yet. For your situation - The whole Cub Scout program is changing next year so the kindergartners can be Tigers again, the 1st graders can be Wolves again etc. That would get everybody back on track where they are supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Chris, good point on finishing early and then dropping out. The more troops and packs start deviating from the program the more unforeseen problems arise. Even with the changes next year this pack could still continue to "go rogue" and mess things up. My son just passed the 10.5 cutoff for joining a troop by 3 weeks because he was so young at crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey091 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Every Tuesday evening I stand with a group of adults and young men and we commit ourselves to the Scout Oath and Law. This Cubmaster is willfully lying and falsifying forms. His intention might be good but he is not being true to the oath or law. He needs to be removed and the the pack needs to take steps to get back on track. If you have a good program the kids will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Someone asks how'd I'd register a Kindergartener? With the Youth Application. You enter their name/address/birthday/grade/etc, and turn it into Council with a check for dues, and you are now a Scout. I'd never dream of falsifying the documents, but I have kids in wrong grades/ranks all over the place. One parent red-shirted a kid, so he's Scout-year correct, but a grade behind. One parent red-shirted a kid and kept him back from Scouts. Others registered in Kindergarten. Whatever, I've been doing things by the book but some people predated my involvement. Life is too short to worry about these things. Are the boys having fun and learning? If so, I've done my primary job. If they earned a Cub Rank at the wrong age, who cares. And do you not think that Council will process your Troop Transfer application because you're only 10? Don't be ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Alex as always you make some excellent points. However we still run into the problem that most boys 9 or 10 are just not mature enough to move to Boy Scouts. my 4th graders are banshees. All they want is silly time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Alex as always you make some excellent points. However we still run into the problem that most boys 9 or 10 are just not mature enough to move to Boy Scouts. my 4th graders are banshees. All they want is silly time. Maybe. That's why I've discouraged registering early, since it's fine for Tiger, okay for Wolf, problematic by Bear where it gets more real. By Webelos, we see the kids pushed too early, they don't get anything out of the program. It's really sad actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie W Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Pack18Alex, I think for my situation we have come up with answer, basically telling the leaders we know and parents making own decision on whether to stay or quit, BUT: What if you call your council today and discover that all these kids who you think are registered honestly under their correct information are in fact really registered as older under incorrect birthdays and grades? Because what you are saying is exactly what parents and some new den leaders have been told in our pack. 'we registered the boys correctly and here is an 'official register' so all is fine.' A den leader has an 'official register' of her den boys that says one boy is a certain age and grade which matches what other parents, the den leader, the boy and his parents all believe are true (and place him as 6 years old just started First Grade having earned Tiger last year), BUT the council has a different age and grade listed. The person we talked to at 'council' said a scout who did not complete Kindergarten and is not yet 7 years old would never get in to Tiger and would not be allowed to earn rank because the computer would not register them and their application would be sent back for verification and correction. This person sent us to a link with an 'official register' of our pack with different information then what the boy, his family say, and his 'official register printout' that the den leader has. So, what would you do then? (Just so you know, our pack number is not 18 ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Council also sticks fake Scouts on my roster that we drop each re-charter. They aren't exactly "boy scouts" when it comes to roster... I'll be honest, I've never checked Birthdates at re-charter. It'll get fixed when the cross over to a troop and re-apply. In terms of earning rank... if they are in the roster, they'll be editable in Internet Advancement, and that'll be that. It's dumb to falsify records, but when you lack Scouts, you get desperate to refill your rank. Also, the Kindergarteners that show up excited for scouting that we turn away never seem to come back the next year, they sign up for another activity. Really wish they'd figure out the Lion program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 *sigh* It all seems so easy from down here in the ditches, looking over the ramparts.... Go by School Grade as registered in September . If the school district sez it is so, it is so. If the boy is Home Schooled, go by the School District equivalent. The boy works on that rank and elective arrow points. Pass to next rank when Summer comes..... As always, the earning of the rank really involves and depends on the Parents' involvement, with the Den Leaders encouragement. The rank need not be a concern at the end of the year, if the boy is having a good time. There are many considerations, yes? Move on to the next year, start again with a fresh slate. Boy can join in any grade, earn Bobcat first.... Kindergarten: Tiger Cub. First grade: Wolf Second: Bear rank Third grade: Lion Rank (resurrected and revamped) Fourth grade: Webelos, choice of Blue or Tan shirts. When all activity pins accomplished, AoL is an award worth awarding. It can be done, one pin a month, starting in July... pass on to (cross over) Boy Scouts after March. Time to meet Troop, time to get ready for Summer Camp. Fifth grade, start Boy Scouts. We're no longer Akela, are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If you start them beginning of 5th grade you are going to have some 9 year olds and all they want to do is run around in the creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie W Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 So disappointed and since I started here and we have resolved not to speak of it anymore in pack and I've already whined and been told to get over it and move on, so I know, but so frustrated anyway. Once again my correctly registered son got 'fourth' place in the derby, which they run early in November probably to hide all the mis-registered kids who then would be found out if they actually moved on anywhere. 4th is just 'thanks for participating and not recognized with anything 'extra'. 1st place went to ...yep... 5 year old Kindergarten kid misregistered as first grader who is 6, 2nd place...yep..another mis-registered 5 year old kindergarten and of course 3rd place to mis registered 5 year old...wow..we have so skilled 5 year old in our pack...I guess maybe they really are in first grade with those fine motor skills....I feel like crying. But, my kid eventually cheered up after only a brief period of disappointment and didn't cry like some of the other older boys so I should be proud he can overcome disappointment. This is his last year in the pack and I promise to go away now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The PWD is a trail of tears most days. Your son does have something to be proud of. I hope you do find a pack without these monkey-shines. But if you don't. When your son is 11, do consider having him visit a troop or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 that pack is all sorts of messed up. I do hope your son continues to a good boy Scout troop that does things properly. I'm sorry your experience with Scouting has been filled with the negativity generated by this pack. Most of us volunteers really do try to do things properly and do right for all the boys, not just our own sons. Sentinel947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 FYI, one of my Scouts had really spotty attendence for a year or two. However, since he had previously been early registered (and was in too advanced a level), we just left him at the level for two years, earned rank with his classmates, and seems to be back active. It's really all about the boys. They'll get more out of the program if they are at the right age. The fact that we've slid back the grade by a year has made the program already too advanced... They don't get out of doing things ahead of the curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Porter Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I have always sort of interpreted the the age requirements to be specific to LDS and the grade requirements for non LDS. I think I had someone explain it to me this way but I don't think I have seen anything official. Either way this pack is doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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