Two questions regarding appropriate behaviors of adult and youth leaders

[Stosh]

Is it right to sell your soul to the devil to save someone else's life?

 

Interesting problem to have.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

G

Is it right to sell your soul to the devil to save someone else's life? Interesting problem to have. Stosh

Sure, my God would approve. He would give me another and then we would laugh about it over a beer on how we screwed over the Devil.

[st0ut717]

Stosh in my faith yes. Good and evil must balance for without evil there is no good

[Stosh]

That is if one believes the ultimate expression of life is measured in good and evil. There are other measurements of course.

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

Did you watch the training video KDD provided But more to the point. I think we can all agree it was in bad taste. but taste and morals are not the same. and the OP had linked the wearing of the tee s-shirt during a non-scout function as a moral flaw. to the ASM and a scout.

Of course I watched the video. All of the little uniform aberrations were so distracting from the seriousness of the the topic.

[Rick_in_CA]

 

Most 11 y.o.'s don't understand the history. (That's a good thing ... they probably haven't had to attend the funeral of someone whose metastases could have been held in check via early detection.) Some simply have a visceral reaction to objectification that should give us all pause.

 

Of course, the purpose of this particular form of objectification is to evoke healthy behavior, so it's all couched in the framework of ends justifying means. But, is seeing that racy t-shirt on a middle school-age boy going to actually translate into self examination? Or, is it adding fuel to body-image issues by teaching women that their value to us is in conforming to the ideal figure?

 

But the point of using "racy" slogans is to break the taboo so they aren't racy anymore. To get to the point where talking about breasts isn't any different than talking about feet or noses or eyes. To get to the point where mentioning breasts isn't any more objectifying as mentioning elbows. Clearly we aren't there yet.

[qwazse]

... But the point of using "racy" slogans is to break the taboo so they aren't racy anymore. ...

Let's hope not. When they are no longer racy, they will lose their impact. The point is to use whatever will get someone's attention and hope that it motivates self-examination more than it may motivate some other survival-neutral behavior (say, silicone implants).

 

And I think that's where we have to meet the young scout who instinctively feels uncomfortable about this. Telling him we're trying to get everybody to not be shy is presuming that there is something wrong about his inhibitions. Admitting that he may rightly be embarrassed -- but our society is making a trade-off in order to forestall death -- helps him to deal with the conflicting roles caring adults play in this world.

[SSF]

It's 2014, not 1974. Smoking and tobacco use has been taboo for a LONG time...that's not a recent change.

 

Nonetheless, yes, a lot of people still smoke...perhaps the BSA is the new last bastion for smokers.

 

The BSA should get rid of the BS around its smoking policy. Ban it for leaders when in uniform, ban it altogether on scout campgrounds and ban it during any and all scout sanctioned camping trips and functions.

 

Yes, smoking leaders would be up in arms, but at least the scouts and those of us who don't want to choke on someone else's bad habit could breathe easy.

 

The fact is that when the SM is proudly smoking away in front of his scouts he's subjecting them to secondhand smoke, which is a Class A carcinogen as affirmed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That is an established fact.

 

Like so many smokers, he seems completely oblivious to the impact of his smoking on those around him.

 

The CC, COR and all adult leaders and the committee need to make it clear that smoking in front of the scouts not only sets an extremely bad example but is also hazardous to their health. If the SM wants to destroy his own health, that;s his choice, but he has no right to endanger the scouts.

 

The t-shirts were inappropriate.

[Sentinel947]

SSF: one needs to only walk on a college campus during class change to see how prevalent smoking still is.

[TAHAWK]

The fact is that when the SM is proudly smoking away in front of his scouts he's subjecting them to secondhand smoke, which is a Class A carcinogen as affirmed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That is an established fact.

And he is blatantly failing to comply with BSA rules as noted above.

 

SSF: one needs to only walk on a college campus during class change to see how prevalent smoking still is.

Respectfully, Sentinel947, your point?

 

Obviously, people still smoke, drink to excess, and drive over the speed limits. The prevalentce of unsafe behavior is not much of an argument for engaging in that behavior, much less modeling that behavior for Scouts..

 

One could also point out that smoking tobacco is more prevalent, as compared to the general population, among those in prison, those who inject illegal drugs, the homeless, and the mentally ill.

 

Having lost relatives and others for whom I cared to smoking, I rejoice that tobacco use has fallen in the general population since the Surgeon General's Report came out. I support BSA policy that prohibits smoking in the presence of Scouts.

[qwazse]

Well, hmmm. I've lost love one's to smoking related illnesses. It ain't pretty. Lot's of stories about regretting ever starting the habit. So yeah, if you love someone -- be it adult or youth, blood family or otherwise, call them out on it. For their sake.

 

But, I enjoyed every moment I spent with those smokers even if some of those days as a kid meant giving them a moment and putting up with the 2nd hand fumes. They were good to me and helped me grow into what most folks considered a fine young fella -- nonsmoker at that. So I never fretted much if my little ones saw someone they respected smoking. Smokers can do right by your kids. If all you're worried about is the effect on little Johnny, seems to me you're putting up a hedge against the wrong enemy.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the Good Book teaches that it's not what goes into a fella's body that puts him in peril, but what comes out of his mouth. I don't think the evangelists were thinking of burnt tar at the time of writing that.

[packsaddle]

Sentinel, those campuses are changing:

"As of October 1, 2014,there are at least 1,477 100% smokefree campuses. Of these, 975 are 100% tobacco-free, and 291 prohibit the use of e-cigarettes anywhere on campus."

http://no-smoke.org/goingsmokefree.php?id=447

 

Our campus is in the process of making this switch as well and this one and others are in 'tobacco country'. Things are changing quickly.

 

Qwazse, me too, several family members. I tend to agree with SSF with regard to the BSA tobacco policy. Anyone should be able to go a few days without hammering in some more coffin nails.

[King Ding Dong]

They may be able to make this campuses tobacco free. Smoke Free has been proven impossible.

[Stosh]

They may be able to make this campuses tobacco free. Smoke Free has been proven impossible.

 

Kinda like, don't pee in the pool. One doesn't need to be in the pool, they don't even need to be near the pool. If everyone is worried about tobacco smoke, one ought to stop and think about what all the agriculture run off both natural and chemical is going into one's drinking water. Most places now are collecting up old chemicals, medicines, and a ton of other toxic waste that up until a few years ago were routinely emptied into our drinking water supply.

 

A number of years back the guv'ment identified super dumps and spent millions containing them. All the people along the Mississippi River can now rest easy in knowing that they have gone in and done containment measures on one of these because it is located just a few feet from the main channel of the river.

 

Knowing that, second hand smoke doesn't bother me one bit.

 

It's a shell game.... and very few people really know where the pea is.

 

Marathon runners in China run with face masks on because of the smog. No different than in LA.

 

My ASM has had to have the county supply fresh water to her home for years because they have poisoned her well (along with all her neighbors' wells) with the county landfill.

 

It's easier to jump all over someone's case for lighting up a cigarette than it is to work on the real source of the problems we face.

 

Stosh

[TAHAWK]

So we have some dangerous products/situations/conditions that are more PC than others. So? Deaths from tobacco are more than an order of magnitude above deaths from the non-PC drugs. (488,000 vs. 17,000) So far as I can seen, that is not an argument for tobacco - or peeing in the pool.