When are den dues considered excessive?

[Stosh]

I watched the thread go off the rails' date=' and I wasn't sure how to intervene in a way that wouldn't get an angry mob calling for my head as the censorship czar of Scouter.com.[/quote']

 

I've been a moderator on a ton of other forums over the years and it is a delicate, thankless job. Hang in there, if the mob went after everyone that tried to censor inappropriate behavior on the forums, there wouldn't be any moderators.

 

I have not seen any inappropriate moderating on this forum, ... ever, and I've been on since 2006.

 

Stosh

[cnew2]

SUGGESTION TO MODERATORS[/b] - How about changing the "New To The Forum? Move it to the top. Rename it to "New to scouting" and describe it as a tame area for questions from new scouters that will avoid the intensity of many online bulletin boards"

 

Great idea. I had a similar "karen reaction" to a question I posted shortly after my boys joined scouting. (my question was - what are the pros and cons of MBs during meetings. BOY DID I GET STRONGLY WORDED ANSWERS!) I did feel a little beat up when it was over.

 

But I have stuck it out on the forums because of the valuable information. I don't post much but read often.

 

Answer to Karen's original question: I don't think an additional $40 to the den is out of line.

 

 

[Stosh]

I've been thinking about this since Karen first posted and reacted.

 

There's a couple of dynamics going on here that need to be pointed out. The people who have been on here for a while have sparred with each other knowing a bit of history acquired each time they lock horns, so to speak. The new people on the block don't know this information and are often caught off-guard by the "answers" they get.

 

Without body language and facial expressions, a lot of what is said is misinterpreted. (One's sarcasm isn't always obvious and can be seen as a major slam.)

 

Sometimes people post in the hopes that what the reaction they are giving can be validated by other scouters. Well, people on this forum don't agree on much of anything very often so that's not going to go well the first time into the fray.

 

Then there are the new people who are new to internet forums to begin with. They might have been part of some chat-room experience, but those people change every time one logs into a chat room. Here they hang round forever.

 

I had years of forum experience before joining this one. I can assure you that this forum is 95% more benign than many of them I have been on and even tried to moderate. Civil War History forums.... I can assure you the war is far from over. Score: Blue 1, Gray 0.... Half-time.

 

Before I respond, I look at the join date and the # of posts they have put out there. That information tells me I need to be clear and specific, assuming nothing and explaining everything if I have any real attempt of being helpful for them. Yes I treat my older scouts differently than I do my NSP boys.

 

So: NSP people. Collect up all the comments, find which one might work for your unit. then toss the rest of them into the BS bin. (For you Cub Scouters out there that's not the Boy Scout bin.... ) There are some things out there that I know won't work for my troop, but could work for some others depending on their situation. Some of the things people are struggling with are things I seem to have avoided by the way I do things, so I offer those experiences up for them to consider too. It is up to them to decide whether or not it has any validity for their unit. I'm not offended by anyone saying my idea won't work in their situation, because when all is said and done and the dust has settled, if it has worked for me, that's all I really care about. Your mileage may vary.

 

Stosh

[CalicoPenn]

Eagle94 - it's a shame that the Pack leaders weren't able to articulate the reason why Cub Scouts would do a weekly Den Dues collection but then at one time, Patrols and Troops also did weekly collections of "dues" from the lads and that pretty much went by the wayside in the 1970's - is it any wonder we have a couple of generations of people that never got into the savings habit?

 

$12,000 in popcorn sales - about a third stays with the Pack - that's $4,000 - that's a lot of pinewood derby cars - The Pack must have some big expenses if it's charging for B&G - hall rental perhaps?

 

As a side, sounds great that the Pack will reimburse dens for supplies but if the paperwork is any more than "name, den, amount, and a reason no more detailed than "Craft Supplies" or "Cookies" and attach receipt here, I'd go the den dues route.

[Basementdweller]

Man I missed a live one here. just about busted a gut laughing at post #5 and then the follow up.

 

Write this one down......I agree with baseball fan, as den leader I would approach the CC and CM about asking you and your boys to leave the unit. From the way it reads here I am sure they would support their DL, especially one with 3 years of tenure.

 

So the old tiger den leader who probably has held a total of 4 meetings is an organized stellar professional.

 

The old dirt bag bear den leader who has not collected a nickle in den dues for the last two years is a unorganized, money grubbing non professional....

 

slowly shaking my head, rubbing my temples

 

We are hearing less than 1/2 of the story here. I would love to read what the den leader has to say about his need for the dues.

 

Just so much to work with, must resist.......must resist.

 

 

YO, Bear Den leader if your reading this post up. I would love to read your side.

[JoeBob]

I Civil War History forums.... I can assure you the war is far from over. Score: Blue 1, Gray 0.... Half-time.

 

Hooyah! Where do you wanna be kissed?

[kjmillig]

Without reading what obviously went awry in the middle, back to the OP. I just found out that the troop where I've been the SM since last November is charging about $550 per Scout annually. I about dropped a load when I found out. And the committee is still collecting campsite and activity fees per campout or activities involving a per person fee.

[Stosh]

New troop, 6 boys, not much equipment, popcorn sales to-date $6,000+ (half way) and one boy is closing in on the $2500 mark. Two boys sold $100 tins to two individuals and they weren't relatives or parent co-workers either. Dues? Yeah right.

 

No matter how much money gets raised, no ISA and everyone is expected to toss in $$ for every event so they have skin in the game. No freebie rides here. Every parent knows as well it is expected the boy pay with money they have earned and not a hand out from mom/dad.

Full official uniform, no knock-off substitutes.

 

A Scout is Thrifty.

 

Once popcorn is over with, Christmas wreaths are on the calendar......

 

Oh, by the way, the troop owns tents and sleeping bags for all the boys already. We're working on dining fly and kitchen items this time around.

 

Sound like a lot of fund raising? Yep, but we still get to our outings and are still signing up for more service projects as of last night. CO is a church and they are having their annual fund raising church supper. Boys signed on to bus dishes and will accept no financial compensation for the effort.

 

Stosh

[frankpalazzi]

Man I missed a live one here. just about busted a gut laughing at post #5 and then the follow up.

 

Write this one down......I agree with baseball fan, as den leader I would approach the CC and CM about asking you and your boys to leave the unit. From the way it reads here I am sure they would support their DL, especially one with 3 years of tenure.

 

So the old tiger den leader who probably has held a total of 4 meetings is an organized stellar professional.

 

The old dirt bag bear den leader who has not collected a nickle in den dues for the last two years is a unorganized, money grubbing non professional....

 

slowly shaking my head, rubbing my temples

 

We are hearing less than 1/2 of the story here. I would love to read what the den leader has to say about his need for the dues.

 

Just so much to work with, must resist.......must resist.

 

 

YO, Bear Den leader if your reading this post up. I would love to read your side.

 

Been there, done that, left my unit this summer after being an adult leader of 34 years.

 

When you are no longer a Troop Committee Chairman, but an adviser of a drama club, it's time to go.

 

KDD's response to the OP was well thought out and appropriate.

 

BD, can I be your ASM?

[King Ding Dong]

Awwww. Fred you are bring tears to my eyes. I am now thinking about getting one of those PayPal card readers for my phone. Oh, forgot your checkbook again. I KNOW you have your debit card. Swipe here.

[koolaidman]

I'm still trying to imagine KDD as angry and bitter.

 

OP: If you're still reading, $40 is quite reasonable. $30 is an extreme bargain. KDD was asking legitimate questions in order to honestly help you. You should apologize for responding with name calling and generally being unscoutlike.

[Brewmeister]

I think the OP gave up after not getting 100% of people to validate his/her position

[packsaddle]

FWIW, I did contact Terry about Fred's suggestion and Terry responded favorably. He just didn't know when his people would get the time to add a 'New to Scouting' forum. But at least your request has not gone unheard.

[packsaddle]

Interesting. I can't edit the post anymore. So now I will add that when that new forum appears, I will encourage moderators to apply a 'stronger' standard of decorum to it.

[MattR]

While a newbie category might help, shouldn't we play nice in all the categories? Stosh has a good point, just look at the number of posts. It might help if people point these things out when they see someone with a lot of experience beating on a newbie. In the case of this thread I'm not sure if anything would have helped, but we should still play nice. You have to remember that people are thrown into this with little help from anyone.

 

My early experience with this forum was not good, so I left it for a few years. But eventually I came back and found some good ideas. Now I know how to weigh personalities and remove the chaff to find the good stuff. There's no doubt this forum is much better than most, but there's still some things that likely don't come across right.