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When are den dues considered excessive?


KarenMcV

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Hello Friends!

 

I still consider myself relatively new to scouting, so I'm looking for some advice. One of my sons is just starting his third year of scouting (Bear). He has had the same den leader since joining Cub Scouts as a Tiger Cub. This year, his den leader sent an email stating that he discussed den dues with a few parents following a den meeting (we were unable to attend that meeting because my son was sick) and that they decided to implement den dues this year in the amount of $40.00 per scout. This amount is above and beyond the $50.00 pack registration fee that we've already paid. There are 12 scouts in the den so that would be a total of $480.00 in den dues. I looked through the Bear Handbook and from what I can see, only 7 of the 24 required achievements actually require, "materials" which appear to be very minimal. I think $40.00 per scout for den dues is excessive and unnecessary. What are your thoughts?

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What does the DL say that money is earmarked for? Having done Bear last year $40 seems very thrifty to me. Have you offered to help source supplies for the Den activities to help lower the costs or do you expect the DL to do it all by himself? Are you building birdhouses a meeting this year? Well a kit at the scouts shop is $6.99. Certainly the parents don't exp ct him to take an entire Saturday afternoon with his table saw and scrap lumber preparing DIY kits? Are your doing knots this year? Well he needs to buy 100' of decent synthetic rope and fuse the ends so each Scout has a tow 6' sections to work with. My point is Cubs can be done cheaply but it requires A LOT of preparation time to do that. If you expect him to to spend all his free time gathering and peeping recyclables he is going to burn out fast. ( I know I am almost there). Just wait for Webelos. You are in for a big surprise. Or you could just have your some play soccer. Around here a cheap recreational 8 week season runs about $130. Your choice.

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I've been a cubmaster for a while and I've never charged den or pack dues. We cover all operational costs with popcorn sales and avoid having parents pay anything for the program. I introduced an optional once a month program night this year that costs $5 to cover materials, belt loops, and pins (the program focuses on Sports and Academic pins since they are going away) and I've already had parents complain to the committee chair about why they are paying for this.

 

So relatively speaking paying $50 for pack dues and $40 for den dues annually seems really high, but if the pack does no fundraising I can understand. We make between $7000-9000 net from popcorn for a 65 boy unit, if that helps understand our situation.

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Wow Ding Dong!

 

You definitely sound angry, bitter and burnt out, not almost there, definitely there! Perhaps you should take some time off to re-visit the 12 Core Values of Scouting.

 

Both my husband and I are VERY involved and OF COURSE we have offered to help source supplies AND time! I'm newer to scouting but I didn't just come in on a load of turnips King Ding Dong!

 

It is absolutely ridiculous that you would even suggest that we would expect the DL to do everything by himself, but I would happily spend time with my son on our table saw to help out the den. As far ropes go, our scouts have received plenty of ropes throughout the years, so they can use those ropes to work on knots. Craft stores are a much more resourceful place to purchase "do-it-yourself" kits if you are secure enough to think outside of the box and be seen in one.

 

It seems to me that some Den Leaders overcomplicate things that are pretty basic and straight forward. I've also run into control issues with Den Leaders and condescending aggression, as you yourself have demonstrated tonight; so much for the "Core Values of Scouting" huh?

 

Oh and by the way, I DO have BOTH of my sons in a GREAT year-round soccer program where they play in a dome during the winter months for $55.00 for an 8 week season. I'm also a stay-at-home Mom and have both of my sons in Catholic school and after-school science programs and other sporting and church activities and we are not a wealthy family. We are just very RESOURCEFUL; you know number 10 on the list of the Core Values of Scouting?

 

Oh, and my other son is a Tiger Scout and his DL does not ask for den dues because his DL is professional, organized, resourceful and ambitious enough to submit receipts to the pack treasurer for reimbursement. As a result of his honorable and stellar actions and leadership, we are all-the-more willing to help in any way possible. In spite of the differences in Den Leaders, we wouldn’t do any less for my Bear Cub’s den because we are dedicated to our sons and the other scouts; it just feels happier and better to help our Tiger Cub DL, formerly the Pack Leader.

 

You on the other hand are the VERY reason why people leave scouting! What a waste of my time!

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PbW,

 

Thank you so very much for your informative and respectful response to my question.

 

Our pack does a lot of fundraising and I'm proud to say that our kiddos are very successful with popcorn sales! =0) Last year they had over $10,000 in sales and they are on track to exceed that this year; another reason why I questioned the $40.00 den dues.

 

Thank you again for you kindness and have a SUPER night!

God bless!

 

 

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$10,000 in gross sales is about $3000 in net income for the year. That's not a lot if the unit is of any decent size. Given that I can understand having to collect dues on top of national registration / boys life fees. And really... $90 total over the 9 month program year is $10 a month... not bad considering all a family gets out of scouting. Does the pack/den want all the dues up front, or monthly? Does that include fees for outings and camping? Is your B&G catered or pot-luck? Is this on top of the nominal national registration fees and boys life?

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PwB,

 

We have to pay all of our fees and dues up front. We have about 60 scouts in our pack. The $90.00 does not include camping or fees for outings. Our B&G is catered but we have to buy tickets per person and pay for all of that separately.

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We should all be careful to not project our feelings on the typed words of others. Karen: your Den Leader should have tried to get everybody's opinion. That being said he/she shouldn't have an issue explaining what the 40$ is for. Maybe you know a way to get the materials cheaper? That'd be a great way to help the DL out. Best of luck finding a solution, and welcome to the forum! Sentinel947

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Baseball fan,

 

You are entitled to you opinion just as I am entitled to mine.

 

If I were a DL and I discovered that one of my parents was writing about me, I would become very enlightened about my performance and apologize to that parent for not creating a forum where parents could openly and honestly discuss topics within our own den.

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It is actually hard to compare dues w/o knowing what the pack covers. The only certain is the $24 to nationals. So out of that $50 we are left with $26 for the pack. I am going to assume a lot of that goes to awards. Does the pack supply the pinewood derby / raingutter boats etc of is that an additional cost. Our pack dues are $75 but there is very little additional cost (other than camping)

 

I assume that the den leader gave the parents that attended the meeting some type of idea of what is included with the $40 and what they will be doing during the year. Yo mentioned the requirements but there are also the arrow point electives. If a lot of electives are planned I could see the cost adding up rather quickly, there are a lot of electives to build stuff. Swimming is one of the electives the cost to get into a pool could be $3-$8. Attend a sporting event is a requirement even a High school football / basketball game is $5-$8. Once again I am assuming that these are some of the cost.

 

But it actually sounds like you have other issues with the DL. Another option to going to another pack would be to split the den. The BSA defines the den as 6-8 scouts. If the den has 12 one could argue that it needs to be split. You could then become the den leader of one of the dens.

 

So looking at my situation $75 in dues. We went swimming as a pack which was another $3, we also went swimming as a pack which was $4. That gets me up to $82. I assume there will be a few more den expenses that the pack doesn't pay. So in the ballpack of $90.

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