Dealing with grubmaster issues

[dfscott]

One of my patrols (made up of mostly older boys 14-16), consistently has problems with the grubmaster role. The PL is very forgetful and laid back and doesn't follow-up. As a result, grubmasters often forget about grub until the last minute, and on the last two occasions, forgot completely. In the first instance, I picked up their food for them since I didn't want to "punish the boys that didn't screw up." After warning them that this was their last bailout, things went ok for a while, but then a couple of campouts later, again, no food (actually partial food -- only enough for two meals). On that trip, I later found out that they begged and borrowed food from the the NSP.

We are boy-led and use the patrol method, so other than periodic email reminders, I try not to interfere with the patrol workings. But I feel bad for the scouts that are trying hard but being let down by the rest of their patrol. (I'm also worried that it's just a matter of time before the parents start getting upset about little Timmy Teenager not getting fed well enough on campouts).

Today, here we are again, two days before the campout, and the PL tells me that the grubmaster says he doesn't have time to get the food and on top of that, no one can find their menu anyway. I've told him that he either needs to find another grubmaster pronto (they all go to the same school so it's not a communication issue) or be prepared to do it himself. His response was "OK", but based on past experience, I'm not expecting them to arrive with any food.

Any thoughts about ways to get this patrol back on course? I'm grubmaster for the adult patrol this weekend, so I'm thinking about while I'm at the store, grabbing something bland like PB&J and Ramen as an "emergency grubmaster kit." They'll have food, but I imagine they'll get tired of it pretty soon and hopefully learn a lesson.

 

[RememberSchiff]

My unit has encountered this. The older scout patrol stopped for pizza and donuts enroute and brought it to camp. They thought themselves rather clever. By Sat lunch, their mooching off the younger prepared scouts was !

 

So here's what we do now at departure gathering.

 

SPL: Are all patrols ready for campout?

NSP PL: Flaming Arrow patrol is ready to light the way.

Leper Colony PL: ...Well, er you see our grubmaster kind of forgot...

SP: Is Leper Colony Patrol ready or not?

Leper Colony PL: No, we forgot food.

 

SM: SPL is troop ready?

SPL: Troop is NOT ready, one patrol, Leper Colony, is not ready.

SM: SPL do you intend to proceed without that patrol, delay departure, or cancel campout?

SPL: (now a decison has to be made and more questions are asked)

 

So far no SPL has canceled a campout and no patrol has attended a campout without proper gear and food.

 

My $0.01 for tough love,

[CNYScouter]

Have the PL assign another patrol member go with the Grubmaster to shop for food. It takes some of the burden off of the Grubmaster and because most Scouts don’t drive, the Scouts need to coordinate with the parents on when to go shopping. Having two scouts (and their parents) helps to eliminate the "I forgot" Syndrome

 

When do your patrol create their menus? Last year we moved to making them two meetings before a campout (we meet on Monday nights) with money due the Monday before a campout. This gives the Scouts plenty of time to figure out when to meet to go shopping.

 

You can also assign an ASM to the patrol to periodically “check up†on them or if needed tag along when they go shopping. Some Scouts just need more mentoring than others.

[MattR]

You're wasting a perfect problem/learning-opportunity. What I would do, given their age, is buy a bunch of ramen packets and take them with me. At the parking lot I'd ask them if they are good to go. If they say yes, then they are good to go. On Sat morning when they figure out they don't have food then I'd remind them that they said they were good to go. I'd ask the other patrols to only give them leftovers that they wouldn't have eaten anyway. If they'd like to trade food for washing dishes that could be good. At lunch, same thing. I'd let them starve. By dinner time they will be really hungry and that's when it would be a good time to talk about teamwork and the scout motto. It's everyone's problem if someone in the team fails, so everyone should be looking out for everyone. Why is it that the adults are saving their bacon (pun intended) and not them? Given that they are feeling the full impact of their decisions by this time they will listen, and this will be the last time it happens. Then I'd give them the ramen noodles.

 

One caveat is I wouldn't do this on a campout where the temp gets low enough that you'll have a lot of hypothermia if they don't eat. In that case I'd ask at the parking lot about food. If they don't have it I'd tell the patrol to stay home. For younger scouts I'd give them the noodles earlier. For first year scouts I'd make sure they had food and just delay them.

[st0ut717]

My unit has encountered this. The older scout patrol stopped for pizza and donuts enroute and brought it to camp. They thought themselves rather clever. By Sat lunch, their mooching off the younger prepared scouts was !

 

So here's what we do now at departure gathering.

 

SPL: Are all patrols ready for campout?

NSP PL: Flaming Arrow patrol is ready to light the way.

Leper Colony PL: ...Well, er you see our grubmaster kind of forgot...

SP: Is Leper Colony Patrol ready or not?

Leper Colony PL: No, we forgot food.

 

SM: SPL is troop ready?

SPL: Troop is NOT ready, one patrol, Leper Colony, is not ready.

SM: SPL do you intend to proceed without that patrol, delay departure, or cancel campout?

SPL: (now a decison has to be made and more questions are asked)

 

So far no SPL has canceled a campout and no patrol has attended a campout without proper gear and food.

 

My $0.01 for tough love,

Love this

 

 

[Eagledad]

I don't know what it is about older scout patrols that pull this stuff, but they are at the age where it's not your concern. If they are going to learn from it, you need to just wait it out and let them come to you, or whatever they do. Like MattR said, we take a little extra for just such learning experiences. Barry

[koolaidman]

RememberSchiff: I wish I had more than 1 like to give. Good Stuff there, I don't care who ya are...

 

(shhhhhh......Ima steal it!)

[Eagle94-A1]

This happened to a troop in my district. Because they were going to do individual cooking that weekend, grubmaster thought that everyone was going to bring their own food, despite a menu being made and being told that the patrol still needs to buy the food to be cooked. Funny thing is, the grubmaster didn't even bring his own food, planning on mooching off his patrol mates.

 

Long story short, one the patrol finished work they need to get done, they went fishing all afternoon. They literally caught their lunch, and dinner, and breakfast.

[meschen]

Two of my favorite quotes seem on point here:

 

"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."

 

"In the 100 years of Scouting, no Scout has ever starved to death on a weekend camping trip."

[scoutergipper]

It's unfortunate that the Adults and the other Scouts keep bailing these guys out. The only lesson they've learned is that, if they're the Grubmaster, they don't have to worry about bringing food.

[TAHAWK]

Other than safety, your primary job is teaching leadership to your leaders.

 

Follow-up or checking is part of the planing process. As suggested, asking the SPL if he has checked is an othodox part of your job. (Questions are a GREAT tool.)

 

"Have the PL assign another patrol member go with the Grubmaster to shop for food." OR Ask the SPL if the PL might assign more than one person ( a food committee) to that task.

 

Cooking contests? Ever since my old troop started an Iron Chef competition, there have been no cooking problems. (Leaders rule in and out different ingredients. Ramen somehow never made it in.) Games are good.

 

[SSScout]

Once upon a time, Scoutson was grubmeister (where's the umlaut on this machine?)for his patrol. This time out, his Patrol, mostly older Scouts, "adopted" a number of first time campers. They met. planned a menu, collected money, assigned duties for the weekend, and waited for the Friday evening. The menu (he showed it to me for comment) included bacon and eggs for Bfast, fresh tomatoes and salad and coldcuts for lunch, and (!) steaks to grill over the fire (real wood fire!) with potatoes in the coals, and lunch leftovers. This was a short hike (less than a half mile?) in type of camp, you couldn't drive up to it, but we all thought it was doable for the younger Scouts. Friday, some of the first years called and said (via the parents) they would be there Sat. morning. Saturday, the Patrol had only the older Scouts in attendance. They ate well. The younger Scouts (and parents?) were surprised when the older Scouts voted NOT to refund their money. They said it would be applied to the NEXT campout.... They had a well attended campout the next month.

[Stosh]

Grubmaster is totally incompetent. Can't take care of himself let alone his patrol. No leadership involved. PL is incompetent in allowing multiple instances of the Grubmaster's incompetence. Seriously you want none of the boys in this patrol mentoring the younger scouts. Nor do you want to inflict these boys on new scouts by making them a part of this fiasco patrol..

 

Sounds like a lip service, boy-led program that is really adult-led bailouts.

 

Here's the solution, Meschen has it right: "In the 100 years of Scouting, no Scout has ever starved to death on a weekend camping trip." The second step is Kudo's 300' between patrols it cuts out the mooching.

 

Duh! These are the older boys, they're going to push the envelop! Try to stay one step ahead of them for a change. Maybe the adults ought to take some time out there and learn some late adolescent behavior issues! If allowed to continue the whole idea of older boys mentoring younger ones is a farce.

 

The NSP younger, same aged patrol is doing nicely? Maybe one ought to move the new scouts into the older patrols to teach them about leadership and teamwork, he said in a touch of sarcasm with a common sense load of realism.

 

No, don't bring ramen noodles, bring a book on foraging wild edible plants and hand it to them. Your last bailout! From that point on and all future events, they are on their own, there will be NO ADULT checking up on them, no reminders, and NO ADULT bringing extra food, and if they go to the NSP and they bail out the boys i.e. take care of them, then the NSP boys are put into the troop leadership because they are showing more leadership than the older boys and it's time they mentor the older scouts so they don't Eagle out before learning what leadership is all about.

 

Stosh

 

[dfscott]

First, an update:

 

Just got back from the grocery store (where in addition to the adult patrol food, I bought a bunch of boxes of Mac and Cheese, just in case). Checking my email, my inbox was on fire -- mostly parents of the patrol members trying to figure out how to bail out the boys. >

 

Then I was pleased to see the last email in the thread, which was from the PL:

Good Evening Everyone,

As patrol leader, I've decided that I will create a new menu for this weekend's camp out, and I will bring the food/drinks tomorrow. If every scout in my patrol who will be attending this campout, can you please bring $15 tomorrow.

Thank you,

 

 

I quickly replied telling the parents asking them to stand down since the PL obviously has this under control. Although this was a bit stressful, I think we got some good from it:

 

1) The PL stepped up and handled the situation (and he now knows that he'd better get a better grubmaster next time unless he wants to do it again!) and,

 

2) The parents see that they boys can handle these situations on their own.

 

Now, it's not without it's negatives, since the scouts did see parents ready to bail them out, but I'm happy they stepped up before that happened. And I'll make sure to let the scout and parents know that there won't be any bailing out, since it's obviously not needed.

 

Thanks, all, for the suggestions and criticisms -- it's all welcome. I'm particularly fond of RememberSchiff's idea -- I'm definitely going to use that one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Twocubdad]

I'm with Stosh. The only thing I would add would be to make sure whoever is driving these bozos know the pizza/doughnut stop is out of the question. Better yet, they ride with me. (I have a CD of Hank Williams' -- Sr, not Jr. -- Greatest Hits in the truck for just such occasions.) The worst thing that can happen is the bozo patrol parlays their screw up into street cred by eating pizza. I would also think twice about allowing them to negotiate with the younger Scouts for leftovers.

 

I've seen this before -- the screw-ups end up strutting around camp bragging about pizza for breakfast, eating for free and bragging about not having to do dishes. Next thing you know every patrol will be "forgetting". This is a situation where the adults need to make sure the proper lessons are learned.