Knox Trail Council (MA) evicts tenants as being landlord not a core mission but what next?

[RememberSchiff]

http://www.wcvb.com/news/man-says-bo...874208#!bPMQ3Q

 

Knox Trail Council (MA) is evicting tenants from four houses which adjoin Nobscot Scout Reservation. One tenant had resided there for more than 50 years.

 

This area is beautiful yet minutes to Framingham (population 68,000) and everything - very high real estate value. Since Knox Trail Council is moving their downton Framingham office to Camp Resolute, I fear a sale of these properties and maybe even Nobscot Reservation to a developer which would be just terrible.

 

Matt Budz, the Council's scout executive, referred questions on the matter to the organization's legal counsel, Raymond Ewer. Messages left for Ewer Wednesday were not returned before the Daily News' deadline.

 

According to the town's assessor's office, the Council acquired the parcel, which borders the Nobscot Scout Reservation, in 1971, and does not have to pay taxes on it. Peltonen said the homes are actually converted farm buildings that belonged to a farmer who previously owned the land. The farmer's daughter donated the property to the Scouts after his death, he said.

 

Some tenants speculate that transfer might have had some conditions attached stipulating the perpetual lease of the homes. But the assessor's office had no such documents on record, and the state's Registry of Deeds' online records don't go further back than 1974, according to the agency's South Middlesex office.

[Torchwood]

I live not too far from there. My guess is that at the very least, the Council will sell the strip of land along Nobscot Road to a developer, who will raze those houses and put in a strip of McMansions- the convenient access to Rt 20 to the north and the Mass Pike (a 10-15 minute drive to the Rt 9/ I-90 exit in Framingham), make it an ideal spot for people commuting to Boston or Worcester.

 

I think it is a shame that Knox Trail Council is more focused on quick cash. At the very least, they should have had a meeting with the tenants, and offered them first refusal on their houses. That would have been the Scout-like thing to do, if they want to get out of the real estate business. I wonder if this is the same developer who has their eye on part of Camp Richard on Nantucket.

 

It would be a shame to see either property completely go away. There are few enough open spaces remaining in the area for camping, never mind Scout owned properties with "proper" facilities for proper Scout camping.

[RememberSchiff]

I can see it now - Nobscot Forest Estates. Our trustworthy builder is loyal and helpful to new homeowners desiring to custom build in a friendly neighborhood. With our courteous service, we build the kind of home...

 

So say you had land to donate and wanted it used for outdoor scout activities and not sold later what should you do? Donation stipulations, if any, seem to be lost or ignored over time.

[T2Eagle]

RS,

 

It's not really that hard as a legal matter to make conditional gifts. In this particular case the tenants speculate that there was some condition placed on the gift, a half hour spent in the Registry of Deeds would provide an answer to that question.

 

On the other hand, as much as no one likes to see camps closed or property sold, the world isn't static. How well do we think we can predict what will be the best course of action for any organization or any individual two generations into the future.

[RememberSchiff]

a half hour spent in the Registry of Deeds

 

Not around here, in a half hour you might get lucky and see someone able and inclined to help you. It would be more likely to be told to come back next Tuesday. Newer (last 20-30 years) deeds were computerized and easy to retrieve, older than that, they are archived and the fun begins. Meanwhile, people express different recollections - some first hand but faded, some third hand and jaded. And when the deed is retrieved, parts can be overruled by a court.

 

Too often I have read of towns and contractors clearing land and building without having checked property ownership first. Oh it was okay, because a permit was issued at town hall and mistakes do happen. Often properties here in rural areas have no definitive boundary markers (steel rebar or granite posts). 5 acres more or less between a large oak on the the south, border on the east by a large rock. Frost wrote "Good fences make good neighbors" from his experience.

 

Your second paragraph troubles me more, If Teddy Roosevelt had felt that way, would we have any national parks? One of the reasons District Camporees are dying around here is there is no place to hold them. Personally I think that camporee concept is obsolete. We as scouts are stewards of these lands and yes we predict that future generations will need trees, lakes, and outdoor places more than they will need more sprawl. If Council does not want to maintain camps for those purposes, sell them with such stipulations to those that will - Mass Audubon, AMC, local conservation groups. Be aware Council once those camps go, you are next,

 

Speaking of Councils in general, who is in charge of camps? Well we have or had a ranger. Evelyn takes reservations until we get the online going... WHO IS IN CHARGE OF CAMPS? No one, oh maybe you will have a group of powerless volunteers overseeing maintenance issues and planning a camporee. IMO we NEED someone, A CAMP COMMANDER whose main responsibility is to proactive book and staff camp events. Summer from May 1 (college kids home) to Oct 1 should be 90% or better booked - scout troops, Autism camp, LDS week, Wilderness First Aid training programs, COPE, shooting programs, college retreats, other youth group programs not thrilled with most family camp groups. Weekends the rest of the year should be 60% or better booked. This person should proactively call every SPL and SM in council as well as other youth and outdoor groups No email, call and remember Schiff threaten to take your phones away. Call, book, staff.

 

"Say we have a shooting program with Smith and Wesson on ...we have a few openings left. Yes the OA or Venture Crew 1 can do a provisional camp that weekend, we also have a WFA weekend. Our Hunter Safety weekend is also coming up... No that weekend is our Orienteering event weekend, the lake version....Yes it is with canoes, we call it a Canoe-O." If we can't find an experienced, enthused adult then hire our top Cub Scout popcorn seller, either way results.

 

I can't tell you the number of weekends where I dropped in at a scout camp and hiked past empty campsites, locked canoes, closed ranges. The weekend of Aug 23-24 was beautiful and a local camp was completely empty except for RS crying like Chief Iron Eyes Cody.

 

My $0.01 for being grumpy and I have not even watched Meet the Press yet. Too nice a day, time for a bike ride.

[ctbailey]

I'm surprised it took them thirty years to realize a $900 per month rental income wasn't worth the potential liability of a hands-off rental property. Think of the worst case scenarios... As a hands off landlord, they would never know if any unscrupulous activities were occurring "on scouting property."

[RememberSchiff]

With no mortgage (land donated) or taxes, I'm thinking one month's rent would cover insurance. I could see maintenance being a issue - a new roof, septic system?

[BadenP]

This is/has been a standard for councils in financial trouble, selling off camps and other scouting property, such as scout huts, lake front property, etc. The council area I live in now repossessed three scout huts that had been given to local troops by city officials but the council exec came in and told the troops any property given to scouts legally belonged to the local council and not the troop or pack, unfortunately dishonesty is widespread among professional scouters. I even told Wayne Brock about this when he visited our area and he promised he would look into this situation, but of course he never did. BSA National are a greedy bunch to say the least, IMO.

[SSScout]

Well, that's not right. Any reading of the Charter document will show that anything the Troop or Pack "owns" is owned by the CO. If the City GAVE the huts to the Troop, then by right the Troop's CO owns it.... Did the newspapers/media become aware of this?

""~~Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter."" = Thomas Jefferson =

[Pack18Alex]

I think that selling off scout property in general is a good thing. Real scouting takes place within the unit. Real estate is a more complicated business in 2014 than it was 40 years ago. Standards have changed, accessibility has changed, etc. Down here our county and state parks offer lots of camping options that are cheap because the parks are taxpayer subsidized, trying to run the properties to use two nights and two days a week is insanely expensive. Two thirds of scouts are in the cub program and I'd guess 2/3 of resources go to support troop level resources. Unless the scout camp offers something unique (like a Boy Scout summer camp that needs unique facilities) we are better off using subsidized resources. It is really expensive to maintain property that is mostly vacant. If the camps aren't fully because the units don't want them, the problem is the camp, not the units. We host our big Camporee at a county park because we need more space. We have been forced by council to host Cuboree and district camporees at council camps, which pisses off the volunteers. We have volunteer rangers and a professional scouter overseeing it, it's a done of resources if rather see plowed into programming and recruiting.

[RememberSchiff]

I think that selling off scout property in general is a good thing....

 

So if your argument holds that the large majority are unfairly supporting limited use by a minority, then would you use the same argument towards selling the Summit, Philmont, and other high adventure bases? Just curious.