mashmaster Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I've read some districts will combine the two so that the common materials are together, then split off into IOLS and WeLOT. I've seen it done where the course did IOLS then kept the Cub leaders a little long to talk about some of the differences. Anyone remember when national was going to combine to the courses? We combine the two courses. I was course director for two of them. The material is very similiar. The biggest difference is focusing on specific activity pins vs. just general topics in IOLS. National is so far back on updating these courses it is pretty sad. The official syllabus is set up to combine the courses. I think the only parts that really need to be covered in OWLS that aren't in IOLS is the rules about camping in your council which is obviously different for each council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumbymaster Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The OWLs training component added about an extra hour to my BALOO course. By IOLS was all about every outdoor component of the Scout->First Class Rank Requirement Skiils. While the Webelos do work on Scout Skills; the IOLS, at least in my course, focus really would not work for Cubs, and you would still need some extra training on the neuances of Webelos vs. Boy Scouts if combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The nuances are not that difficult. Just need a little more time. I've found folks would rather spend a little more time on 1 weekend getting both OWL and IOLS completed, than have to take up 2 weekends doing essentially the same course over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Our council teaches IOLS and WOLS together, giving credit for both. I don't know if they add an extra module for the Webelos stuff or not. I always thought it was silly to require two very similar courses within a year or so. This is one area where the training folks listened to the folks on the ground. No one has answered your question about taking Webelos out in November. There are no national rules concerning this. I've never heard of council rules related to this either. It's up to you to know your local weather and the abilities and gear of your Scouts. Here, in the foothills of NC, we always plan our Webelos campout the first weekend of November. We usually have pretty good weather around here, cool but not cold, but the big thing is we're getting out of fall sports season and popcorn sales are over here . (Our pack is BIG into selling popcorn, the Boy Scouts could care less.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The nuances are not that difficult. Just need a little more time. I've found folks would rather spend a little more time on 1 weekend getting both OWL and IOLS completed, than have to take up 2 weekends doing essentially the same course over again. but isn't owl alone just a one day thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I always thought it was silly to require two very similar courses within a year or so. This is one area where the training folks listened to the folks on the ground. now this I agree with! Now if they could just offer some of this stuff when we're not right in the busy time with our units! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 STOP THE PRESSES! In looking for the syllabus online, I found this link which shows that OWL can be done in conjunction with IOLS or as a 12 hour standalone course http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-336.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The OWLs training component added about an extra hour to my BALOO course. By IOLS was all about every outdoor component of the Scout->First Class Rank Requirement Skiils. While the Webelos do work on Scout Skills; the IOLS, at least in my course, focus really would not work for Cubs, and you would still need some extra training on the neuances of Webelos vs. Boy Scouts if combined. That is a pity. Because if they follow the actual course syllabus OWL is a full day and a half alone. BALOO should be about 6 hours on its own. When they combine it, they are short changing the attendees of the info they need. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumbymaster Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) That is a pity. Because if they follow the actual course syllabus OWL is a full day and a half alone. BALOO should be about 6 hours on its own. When they combine it, they are short changing the attendees of the info they need. IMHO I can't say I disagree. I am normally pretty good about peeking ahead into the syllabus before I take courses in this case I did not - so I didn't go in with a frame of reference for what OWL should have done, in this case I was only looking for the BALOO. The vast majority of which was stuff I already knew from my own Scouting. Edited October 5, 2015 by gumbymaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I can't say I disagree. I am normally pretty good about peeking ahead into the syllabus before I take courses in this case I did not - so I didn't go in with a frame of reference for what OWL should have done, in this case I was only looking for the BALOO. The vast majority of which was stuff I already knew from my own Scouting. Agreed about Baloo, but in my experience people attending BALOO tend to not have any experience with scout camping or camping at all. So there is a lot of "No, you can't do that and this is why." You would not believe some of the questions I have been asked at BALOO or OWLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Boy, differs from my BALOO experience. There was quite a big crowd of students.... probably 30 or more. I think there was maybe a handful of folks with little or no camping experience. The rest were eagle scouts, experienced scouters, lifelong campers, etc.... in it just because it was required. In fact I think there was more knowledge about tour permits sitting down that there was standing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Boy, differs from my BALOO experience. There was quite a big crowd of students.... probably 30 or more. I think there was maybe a handful of folks with little or no camping experience. The rest were eagle scouts, experienced scouters, lifelong campers, etc.... in it just because it was required. In fact I think there was more knowledge about tour permits sitting down that there was standing up. My guess is that is it area dependent. We are pretty urban so not a ton of campers. And there isn't a class that goes by that I don't learn something from one of the participants. you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Boy, differs from my BALOO experience. There was quite a big crowd of students.... probably 30 or more. I think there was maybe a handful of folks with little or no camping experience. The rest were eagle scouts, experienced scouters, lifelong campers, etc.... in it just because it was required. In fact I think there was more knowledge about tour permits sitting down that there was standing up. What part of the country? Sounds like mine. While not in a B.A.L.O.O. course, a comment from a new ASM, "Man, Scouting is cramping my camping. I haven't been backpacking in 4 months (due to the monthly troop camp outs). " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 oh no, I'm fairly urban here, in North Florida. I just figured that most folks that are "into" scouting tend to be outdoorsmen anyway.... even if not hard core outdoorsmen, most of us like to camp, or maybe fish, hunt, etc... In my case, I've been plop camping in one form or another since before I was a Cub Scout. I've done a little backpacking, not nearly as much as I'd like. A little bit of camping by boat and canoe. This sort of experience seems to be the typical scouter here. We have plenty of indoor parents that have never camped, families that camp with us as a pack for the very first time. Some will never camp...... but I can't think of any scouter I know that comes from that demographic. Those are the parents that don't step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 oh no, I'm fairly urban here, in North Florida. I just figured that most folks that are "into" scouting tend to be outdoorsmen anyway.... even if not hard core outdoorsmen, most of us like to camp, or maybe fish, hunt, etc... In my case, I've been plop camping in one form or another since before I was a Cub Scout. I've done a little backpacking, not nearly as much as I'd like. A little bit of camping by boat and canoe. This sort of experience seems to be the typical scouter here. We have plenty of indoor parents that have never camped, families that camp with us as a pack for the very first time. Some will never camp...... but I can't think of any scouter I know that comes from that demographic. Those are the parents that don't step up. Interesting how it differs from area to area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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