Tent Policy

[evilleramsfan]

I'd like input from as many as possible to get their thoughts on this. I got this from our CC. I have my thoughts on it, but will keep those to myself for awhile until I get some input to see how others in scouting view it.

 

Troop XXXX Tenting Policy

 

It is the intent of this policy to explain the official tenting policy of Troop XXXX.

The purpose of troop owned tents is to ensure availability of quality tents that can service campers in three seasons and various weather conditions. Many tents on the market are not adequate or properly designed for inclement weather. Considering that our Troop camps as many as eleven months of the year, including snow and severe rain, good equipment is needed to protect primarily against leakage and also retain heat during cold weather.

In accordance with the By-Laws of the Troop, boys and adults may utilize their own tents or they may use a tent owned by the troop.

In the event that the scout or leader chooses to utilize a troop owned tent. The person who checks out the tent with the Quartermaster, will be required to return it to the quartermaster clean, dry, and properly folded. Any damage will be reported to the quartermaster so the tent can be repaired or replaced as needed.

In the event that the scout or leader choses to use a privately owned tent, the tent shall be in good condition, waterproof, and of adequate size for the people utilizing the tent.

Scouts shall generally camp two scouts to a tent. No more than three scouts will be allowed in a tent, and then only if there I an odd number of scouts at the event and none are at least 14 years old and can tent by themselves. Scouts who have reached the age of 14, may tent by themselves. Provided that this does not create a situation where there are not adequate scouts to create pairing for the other scouts as needed.

Scouts shall not tent with their parents, unless there are special circumstances, such as campsite space restrictions, or special need of the scout. This shall be waved for scouts who have been a scout for less than 6 months.

The minimum tent size for a tent with two scouts shall be 7 feet by 7 feet. The minimum tent size for three boys shall be 7 foot by 10 foot, or equivalent (minimum 23 sq. feet per person). Adult leaders utilizing privately owned tents, or scouts 14 years of age or older tenting individually using privately owned tents, may use any size tent at their discretion. Maximum allowed tent sizes may be restricted on certain events due to campsite space restrictions.

The scoutmaster or outing leader may, at his discretion, require the scout to utilize a troop owned tent, if in his unchallenged opinion the privately owned tent is not in a serviceable condition.

Troop XXXX is NOT responsible for damage to privately owned tents.

Troop XXXX does not guarantee availability of troop owned tents.

Troop XXXX does not guarantee that troop owned tents are waterproof.

Troop XXXX is not responsible for any damage to equipment due to tent leakage or other issues involving Troop owned, or privately owned tents.

[Twocubdad]

Is your troop chartered by a law firm?

[evilleramsfan]

LOL!!!....

[Rick_in_CA]

This is unreal. What next? An official written policy on underwear (the only underwear shall be boxers, unless the scout is of 14 years of age in which briefs may be substituted with written permission of the parent. Material will be 100% cotton unless the expected average night time temperature at the camp out is expected to drop below 40 degrees...)?

[NJCubScouter]

Is your troop chartered by a law firm?

I resemble that remark. Evilleramsfan, this does seem completely ridiculous - even to a lawyer. Let me ask you this: Is this policy a reaction to problems that have actually come up on camping trips? Or did someone just dream this up to prevent future problems they think could arise? Or a combination of both, for different parts of it?

[King Ding Dong]

So the troop won't let the scouts sleep "under the stars"? Or use a tarp tent? Sounds like the policy needs a little more lawyering. I have news for you, three season tents like to fail in the snow. What about facilities that prohibit solo tenting? Who pays for the damage to troop equipment? What about hammocks? Sounds like you could have problems at Pre-ordeal.

[CarrieASM]

Wow. I understand having a troop policy to prevent damage to troop property, but this is overboard! (It's also full of grammatical errors!) Who is going to go out with a tape measure to measure the tents? My troop has tents of different sizes - some cabin tents fit 8 boys. They love them. Not only does the CC seem to be micromanaging unnecessarily, it also seems to usurp some of the SM's area = actual camping.

[Stosh]

I concur with the rest. Someone has too much free time on their hands.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

I am sure they boys would love to sleep 8 to a tent. The problem arises when you have a Webelos III troop or as in my case a Tiger Cubs V troop and they all stay up until 2am and won't shut up. I am the only one who is willing to stay at summer camp all week and if the SM and parents don't do something about this crap, I will institute a similar policy or shut the unit down.

[evilleramsfan]

Some background:

-I am the SM and am on my 11th year with our troop (3 as ASM, the rest as SM), Eagle Scout, total experience in scouting 15 as a youth, 15 as an adult (the adult time has usually been more fun!).

-CC has been with troop just over 2 years, full stint in cubs, den leader, no youth experience with program.

-We have a couple of boys who are not comfortable with staying in a tent with other youths. They are generally quiet and shy...great kids and very active. Their parents are leaders in the troop. The boys are active and knowledgeable....they just are not comfortable with sleeping in a tent with other kids. It is to the point that they probably would not even go on campouts if told they had to do so. I talk to them about it, but do not push the issue. I would rather have them there in that situation than not have them there at all.

-We have had a few campouts where a boy would bring a monster tent and maybe 6 or 8 boys would all sleep in it. Generally they are cheap, but keep the bugs and usually the moisture out. We were at summer camp and the very first night had a rainstorm that I have never experienced in 30+ years of scouting. The 3 inches of rain was the easy part. We got hit in the middle of the night with a strong downburst that caved in at least 4 tents and would have done so to more if not for people standing up in the tent and keeping it from caving. Mine was one of the ones caved in. I had the foresight to put on a swimsuit and t shirt for bed because I figured I'd have to get out in the rain. I was looking at the ceiling of the tent and the next thing I knew, it was on top of me. I stood up and held it up, but heard the kids in the next tent yelling and screaming, so I opened the door, stepped out, zipped it up, and let the wind do its thing. That night we had to evacuate about 8 kids to a nearby building to spend the night because tents were drenched. The important thing was that we dried out and had a great week. Nobody was hurt and we had beautiful weather the rest of the week.

 

I think that caused some to think we had to change our policy. The CC was not at the camp, so he is hearing about it from others.

[evilleramsfan]

It was a first draft, so don't sweat the grammatical errors. He was talking about bring this up at committee meeting for discussion. I want to get more input here first, then I'll post my reply.....so I can get more feedback.

 

FYI, twice before he had to be taken to task because he was trying to dictate program to me. I have been through too much before him and have the battle scars to show and won't let him push me. (Actually, my 3 prior CC's were all great!) Program is my domain.

[evilleramsfan]

BTW- some of my fondest memories were of our old troop tents as a youth. It was like a nylon quonset hut with large fiberglass poles for the frames. We could easily sleep a patrol of 8 for a week of camp in it.

[TAHAWK]

Your CC might want to read and think upon the following from B.S.A.

 

The troop committee

does the following:

• Ensures that quality adult leadership is recruited and trained. In case the

Scoutmaster is absent, a qualified assistant Scoutmaster is assigned. If the

Scoutmaster is unable to serve, a replacement is recruited.

• Provides adequate meeting facilities.

• Advises the Scoutmaster on policies relating to Boy Scouting and the

chartered organization.

• Supports leaders in carrying out the program.

• Is responsible for finances, adequate funds, and disbursements in line

with the approved budget plan.

• Obtains, maintains, and properly cares for troop property.

• Ensures the troop has an outdoor program (minimum 10 days and

nights per year).

• Serves on boards of review and courts of honor.

• Supports the Scoutmaster in working with individual boys and problems

that may affect the overall troop program.

• Provides for the special needs and assistance some boys may require.

• Helps with the Friends of Scouting campaign.

• Assists the Scoutmaster with handling boy behavioral problems.

 

Beyond making such rules not being a Committee role:

 

A 7' x 7' tent is not a "two-man" tent in the trade. It's pretty near a "four-man tent." A Timberline Two is 5'3" x 7'2"

 

How does he propose to measure a hexaginal or octagnonal tent?

 

Does a vestibule count? If not, why not?

 

He is requiring a Scout one day under his 14th birthday to tent with another Scout or non-parent unless there is an "odd number" at the event.

Does he know B.S.A. policy on parents tenting with Scouts?

Does he know about patrols? Does he realize his rules will doubtless require Scouts from different patrols to tent together?

Has he had any training whatsoever? http://scoutmastercg.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/troop_committee_guidebook.pdf

[King Ding Dong]

Tahawk it is certainly within the rights of the CO to make program rules that do not conflict with BSA policy. As you know the CC is appointed by the COR and serves at the COs pleasure. If the CC is making rules against the wishes of the CO that is the only problem. The SM needs to discuss this issue with the COR and IH if necessary.

[evilleramsfan]

CO is a good scouting friend of mine and a Woodbadge Instructor. IH is an Eagle Scout. This is our 3rd run-in like this in the year and a half of this CC. The last time, the COR and IH stated in the Committee meeting that as SM, I have the full support and endorsement of the CO and petty games were to stop.