When to "count" the POR

[qwazse]

I'm coming down on the side of the troop (which sounds a bit on the youngish side).

 

If a scout can't fulfill his duties for 6-8 weeks, the courteous thing is to step aside. Camp staff is no excuse. ASPL can pick up when he gets back. Evidently there's a scribe position open, so this shouldn't be a big deal. End result: that requirement gets checked off a month or two later. Boy holds head high knowing he did his best and was responsible to the troop for a solid 6 months.

 

The other boy sits on the sideline (if parents are willing to back down and eat a little humble pie) and can watch the former ASPL's example. Then in October the SM/SPL says to the slacker scout, do you think you could do as well in that position?

[Twocubdad]

I'm with Qwaze on this. I think the troop is being reasonable in both situations. While I'm sympathetic to the ASPL on camp staff, he's not fulfilling his responsibilities with the troop. Perhaps the SM could have arranged a "Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project" based on his camp duties, but only for Star and Life.

 

I'd like to know what you mean, "haven't really given him access to the trailer" means. If the scout isn't attending meetings or campouts and is expecting someone to allow him access to the trailer on HIS schedule, I've got no sympathy. I'm dealing with a similar issue over SM conferences with a couple parents who expect that I should meet with their Scouts around their family vacations and sports practices. Nope, one night a week, one weekend a month. So I'll acknowledge a little personal bias here.

 

It really sucks when adult issues make it impossible for Scouts to continue with a unit. Went though that once and it's a real heartbreaker. But we're volunteers here and there's a limit to the amount of drama we should have to deal with. Sometimes it's better to make a break and move on.

[dfscott]

Responding mainly to Fred, but addressing some of the others' points as well.

 

Trailer Access: Yes, we could have scheduled special times to bring it to the meeting. However, we didn't other than having it available after campouts. On the other hand, the scout in question never requested access to the trailer. In a follow-up email relayed by his father he said that the SPL "interfered with his ability to do the job." He did not elaborate beyond that and I have seen no evidence of that.

 

POR Attendance: This was taken from some boilerplate POR descriptions and discussed with the PLC. I asked them whether or not they wanted actual percentages and they voted to keep them.

 

ASPL/summer camp: That was definitely a tough one. The ASPL went to a different summer camp than we did (he went to our in-council camp, Bert Adams, while the Troop decided to go out-of-council). He's back now and camped with us this past weekend. It's put the SPL in an interesting situation because now the ASPL wants his position back but the "new" ASPL doesn't want to lose it. The ASPL is only a Tenderfoot, so he doesn't really need the POR, but it's a good lesson for the SPL in dealing with the consequences of their actions.

 

Summer meetings: Yes, we have a full schedule during the summer, including camping. This may change now, though. The scouts are talking about suspending all campouts during the summer and only holding meetings just to prevent this type of drama. This would make ASPL much less important so people could coast through the PORs, if needed.

 

***

 

In other developments, this has quickly escalated out of hand. A parent intercepted some text messages where the scout in question, his brother, and several members of his brother's patrol are planning to try and "get rid of the SPL". They claim to have evidence of the SPL "mooning" them and one says he was sexually assaulted by him at summer camp. Their plan appear to be to come to me and blackmail me into removing the SPL or they will go the council and try to get the troop shut down.

 

I am about at the end of my rope -- the only reason I'm not quitting is because I don't want them to win. The ironic thing is that the SPL is moving next month and will likely end up having to join another troop anyway...

[qwazse]

Well, this is dandy. My advice, call your SE. Tell him what you know and explain you may need independent help getting objective details. Simply put, there's no blackmail. There's an accusation of sexual harassment. Run it up the chain. Needles to say, give no further details on this forum. Resist any temptation to sweep this under the rug. I know this sounds like I'm telling you to make things worse, but this is the only way to make things better.

[fred johnson]

Qwazse is right.

 

dfscott ... Call your scout exec. NOW. THIS MOMENT. And yes, time to move away from this forum.

 

 

The question you need to answer for yourself is "mandatory reporting". Page one of Guide to Safe Scouting. Do you have a good faith suspicion of abuse? Or are these guys just willing to destroy everything to win. In either case, this is beyond you to resolve. You need to pass it up the chain. My question would be do you need to call local authorities too. Abuse does happen. Take it seriously.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf

 

I wish you the best and hope that somehow this all gets resolved.

 

The ironic part is the only person that might do okay in all this is the SPL. He's moving. That's probably the best thing that can happen for him as he'll be able to get away from this situation and these people.

 

The sad thing is that this whole situation can poison scouting for many many people and potentially kill a troop.

 

Good luck.

[Stosh]

I suggest to the boy that for 6 months POR he journal 26 weeks of what he did to fulfill that position. Every week needs a journal entry of his work. If he did not attend a meeting, he might have gotten his input communicated to the meeting anyway, i.e. a written PL report, a written Treasurer's report, etc. If he missed an outing, and an assistant took over for him, did he pass on instructions to his assistant and did he make sure the others who rely on him were helped and ready to go?

 

If he is working behind the scenes he needs to get credit for it.

 

On the other hand if any one of the 26 weeks is totally blank and he did Jack squat that week, then he's a week short on his requirement.

 

There's no % necessary, just proof of involvement and fulfillment of his responsibilities.

 

Try this with your Historian or Librarian some time and see what you get and then compare it with your PL's and see who really deserves advancement. I have seen APL's do more work than Librarians and get no credit where the librarians get rank credit. That will take the wind out of any boy's sails in a very short period of time.

 

Stosh

[dfscott]

Last post here: CC and COR are already involved and have contacted the DE as well. For reasons mentioned, I won't add any more comments until this is all resolved. Thanks for all the advice.

[Twocubdad]

Given dfscott's situation, I don't suppose a hijack would hurt.

 

So, Stosh -- I like you journaling idea. Can you expand on your instructions? Do you have a more detailed list of questions to prompt the sort of details you want?

[Stosh]

Given dfscott's situation, I don't suppose a hijack would hurt.

 

So, Stosh -- I like you journaling idea. Can you expand on your instructions? Do you have a more detailed list of questions to prompt the sort of details you want?

 

Too often we hear of the conflict between what some adult says the POR means and what some scout thinks it means. Well, journaling pretty much validates a person's efforts towards the requirement. Does the SM really know what the PL does when he's not around? Does the SM know what the QM is doing when he's not looking? How much contact does the TG have with the NSP? How much prep time does the Instructor put in getting things ready for a teaching preso he's working on? Document it!

 

This also applies for multiple POR's being done by a single scout. Maybe he does a nice preso this week for the NSP (Instructor) and next campout does the bugling for the weekend (Bugler). Then he does a couple of weeks as Den Chief, but the Cub Scouts don't meet for the summer so he's screwed. So he organizes and inventories the troop trailer for the QM who's not doing his job instead. Then he takes the flier for the camporee and starts getting the PL's ready for it (SPL), collects the fees and works with the Grubmasters to pay for the food (Scribe/Treasurer). ETC ETC ETC.

 

I'm willing to pull 26 weeks together (not necessarily sequential) to fulfill 6 months of work for POR requirements. It make take him 9 months to put together 26 weeks of work in a half dozen positions, but if he journals it and keeps track of it, shouldn't he get credit for it? And even if it's a boy who didn't get elected/assigned a POR for advancement, shouldn't he still get credit for all his work even if he doesn't wear a POR patch? Just compare such a boy against an ASPL who doesn't do a thing for 6 months but gets POR credit anyway, or the Bugler who plays reveille and taps at two camporees and maybe summer camp. Total of 30 minute's total worth of work at best, but gets POR credit anyway.

 

Instructions? "Journal your POR work and come into the SMC and impress me with what you've done." If it's good enough to convince me it surely will convince a BOR. Do I have to pull out my attendance book? Do I have to measure the minutia of his effort? What about the time I can't watch him? Is he goofing off or working his butt off? Such subject measurements can be corrected by simple journal entries showing dates, time and effort recorded. If it adds up to 26 weeks of effort, we're done and will validate more effort than most POR measurement in most troops today.

 

CC at the BOR: "So, Johnnie, I notice you have no POR patch on your shirt but you're here for your BOR. What's up with that?

 

Johnnie: "Let me show you what I've been up to for the past 26 weeks and you can decide whether it's enough to cover the requirement."

 

Worse case scenario, just call it a 26 week special project assigned by the SM.

 

I have had a number of boys do this when they don't get elected/selected for a POR and have shown more initiative and work than most of the boys with patches. I even had one Eagle candidate who screwed up big time that needed my recommendation. I gave him 26 weeks and no patches to prove to me he was worthy of Eagle. He did, it was really quite impressive. Surprised even me.

 

Stosh