Youth protection question

[christineka]

This was at day camp' date=' and at some of the stations, the nearest bathrooms were hard for the little guys to find on their own. The camp leader was pretty rude about the whole situation. During the scouting event (camp) we definitely had at least two leaders over age 21 who did YPT. Also, there should have been no reason for the parent to have to take the two boys, because he's allowed to be 1:1 with his own son, right? The other Tiger was working on his wagon and didn't need to use the bathroom, and didn't want to go and not get to finish his wagon. He would have gone if needed, but he preferred to not. After a little row, the dad took his son to the bathroom. Camp leader hemmed and hawwed and said "I'll be telling the CM and CC about this!" But I was pretty sure the parent was in the right. [/quote']

 

In this case, I see nothing wrong with one boy, being escorted to the bathroom by his own parent. I don't see why we need to accompany this boy by yet another boy and another adult. I should think that a parent would be able to take his own kid to the bathroom.

[AKdenldr]

Lordy, I saw this misunderstanding at Cub Scout camp a few years ago. Kids couldn't do anything because adults thought every trip to dining hall to pick up a lost jacket or bathroom required 2 adults and 2 kids. They only had 2 adults so the whole pack had to go to the bathroom together, every time anyone needed to go! (Not to mention adults galore swarming the camp from other packs and staff.) What a way to ruin a fun week!

 

2 deep is for the pack outing. No one-on-one is for all scout experiences. Boys should have some freedom. Grab your buddy and find the bathroom on your own, take an adult if you are not sure where it is. Adult stay outside, or in an emergency leave the door ajar a tiny bit.

 

Some adults in our troop think 2 adults are needed to supervise 2 scouts selling popcorn in a busy grocery store. Still working on that....

[JasonG172]

He "could" take his son. The CAN NOT take 2 boys, without another adult.

 

The leader was right in saying let him take a buddy, but if you are uncomfortable with him walking some distance....nm I will keep the rest to myself. lol

[chrisking0997]

2 deep seems to constantly be misunderstood...not sure why BSA cant sit down and specifically spell out whats required in certain situational examples.

[JasonG172]

2 deep is understandable to me. Easy, always 2 registered leaders with YPT training.

[chrisking0997]

sorry, I meant its application to real life situations, not what it means

[NJCubScouter]

2 deep seems to constantly be misunderstood...not sure why BSA cant sit down and specifically spell out whats required in certain situational examples.

 

While I often criticize the BSA national leadership for poor communications to the rank-and-file in a number of areas (advancement probably being number one), I have to say that in the area of the two-deep leadership and no one-on-one rules, they do about as good a job as one can do. I think there ARE examples given in the training, aren't there? I don't remember. Plus if people would just read the guidelines, and take them literally, they would understand that two-deep and no one-on-one are different rules (though with similar purposes) and that if you keep them separate and apply each one, you won't end up with ridiculous things like requiring two leaders and two Scouts to walk down the path to the mess hall to pick up a lost item. People get the two rules tangled up, and also don't understand that the "unit of activity" to which two-deep applies is the OUTING, and not every single separate minute or square foot of the outing (while no one-on-one DOES apply everywhere, at all times.)

[JasonG172]

Stated nicely ^

[Lenae]

 

While I often criticize the BSA national leadership for poor communications to the rank-and-file in a number of areas (advancement probably being number one), I have to say that in the area of the two-deep leadership and no one-on-one rules, they do about as good a job as one can do. I think there ARE examples given in the training, aren't there? I don't remember. Plus if people would just read the guidelines, and take them literally, they would understand that two-deep and no one-on-one are different rules (though with similar purposes) and that if you keep them separate and apply each one, you won't end up with ridiculous things like requiring two leaders and two Scouts to walk down the path to the mess hall to pick up a lost item. People get the two rules tangled up, and also don't understand that the "unit of activity" to which two-deep applies is the OUTING, and not every single separate minute or square foot of the outing (while no one-on-one DOES apply everywhere, at all times.)

 

 

So that I am clear, this means; At least two leaders on the outing (day camp) and never 1:1. But during the outing, it is acceptable for one adult to walk somewhere with at least two boys. Like your example of walking to the lost and found. The only time 1:1 is allowed is parent/child. Am I understanding correctly?

[chrisking0997]

agreed....well said NJ. However, the fact remains that people do mix them up (I even realized just now that I mixed the terminology up, even though I knew what I meant but may have confused others). Perhaps I will retake the YPT course just to see what it says. Most likely, its a case of adults erring on the side of caution...I guess a little confusion is better than the alternative.

Im wondering though if the leader in the OP has gone camping with the cubs yet? Pretty sure a great number of cubs share a tent with their parental unit alone, and thats usually their bathroom buddy overnight. Wonder what they'll say about that.

[King Ding Dong]

So that I am clear' date=' this means; At least two leaders on the outing (day camp) and never 1:1. But during the outing, it is acceptable for one adult to walk somewhere with at least two boys. Like your example of walking to the lost and found. The only time 1:1 is allowed is parent/child. Am I understanding correctly?[/quote'] You specifically stated "day camp". To me that means multiple packs meeting at a district/council event. In my Council in those situations where there is camp staff and one or more packs/dens sharing a camp site the concept of "shared leadership" comes into play and only one leader per pack is required. Still no one on one contact with a child not your own. At Webelos mini camp last week I shared a site with two other packs one of which only had one leader as well. Many times we traveled to stations together other times not (open program slots).

[scoutergipper]

Lenae - "Never be anywhere alone with a single Scout who is not your son." So yes, a single Adult can escort two Scouts somewhere, but cannot allow one Scout (for instance) to go into the bathroom, leaving the other Scout alone with the Adult.

[PatB]

Lenae - "Never be anywhere alone with a single Scout who is not your son." So yes' date=' a single Adult can escort two Scouts somewhere, but cannot allow one Scout (for instance) to go into the bathroom, leaving the other Scout alone with the Adult.[/quote']

 

Let's not confuse everyone who doesn't understand this. An adult can wait outside of the bathroom with the other scout provided that it is an open, public area.

[mashmaster]

 

Let's not confuse everyone who doesn't understand this. An adult can wait outside of the bathroom with the other scout provided that it is an open, public area.

 

 

that is correct. public view is key.

[King Ding Dong]

Let's not confuse everyone who doesn't understand this. An adult can wait outside of the bathroom with the other scout provided that it is an open' date=' public area.[/quote'] Not disagreeing with you and that makes sense however that is not what the policy says. It does not say "no one one on contact except in an open public area". A typical scout campsite may be open public area but you should not be alone with one scout there.